RICHARD RAXWORTHY TALKING TO PETER GADD
I will ask you first what is your full name?
PG: Peter Arthur Gadd.
Where were you born and when?
PG: Born at Belmore on 13 May 1947.
Did you grow up there?
PG: No. For the first couple of years we lived at Dulwich Hill with my mother’s parents. At the time dad was in the army, or had just come out of the army actually. We then moved when I was four from Dulwich Hill down to Wollongong, to Warrawong.
Where did you go to school?
PG: St Patrick’s Primary School at Port Kembla, then the Christian Brothers College at Wollongong.
Did you like school, dislike it? How did you get on?
PG: The early days were a bit rugged. I had been to school previously. I was born spastic which affected my leg and arm minimally, the leg a little more, and I was the first out-patient at the Spastic Centre in Mosman. It was before I was four when they realised I was spastic and I started at the Centre and used to go there on a daily basis, the bus would pick me up and take me in and bring me home. Before we came down to Wollongong they wanted me to be kept there basically on a full-time basis. As I was only around four years of age, dad and mum decided, particularly dad, that I was starting to imitate the other kids and was demonstrating worse instances of being a spastic than I really was, copying other kids. Dad made the decision, which in hindsight was a pretty bright decision and also a very brave one at the time, to take me out of there against the doctor’s orders and put me in a normal school. So I started school a little early down here in Wollongong, I think somewhere between four and five. The first years were a bit rugged. Not years actually, the first few months, I had a couple of fights and name-calling and things like that, sort of kids things. But after that actually I never had any trouble. I didn’t particularly like school mainly because I was relatively lazy in terms of studying. It always came fairly easily, I never failed an exam even though I didn’t study so God knows what I could have been. It was quite good overall but I was very pleased to get out of it like anyone else.
Any subjects you liked?
PG: Chemistry in high school. In primary school nothing sort of springs readily to mind. In high school I really enjoyed chemistry. Strangely enough disliked physics fairly intensely, because in those days they were two separate subjects. Tech drawing I was absolutely hopeless yet. In hindsight I can never work out why I actually took tech drawing as a choice, because I failed every exam in tech drawing which is the only subject I ever failed. I failed every exam through high school except in the Intermediate Certificate where I scraped through with, I think, 51.
In actual fact have you been doing tech drawing ever since?
PG: No definitely not. In fact when I finally went into the workforce I sort of shot around aimlessly, fortunately in one organisation the County Council where I still work. In fact I have got twenty-five years up this year. Initially in the creditor section, stores, those sorts of things. Fortunately I fell into pay-roll and found I had some skills in people areas and from there was fortunate enough to get into Personnel proper. I have now completed the Certificate of Personnel Management and Industrial Relations and other courses to be a Personnel Officer.
What did you father do?
PG: Dad was a tradesman barber. His father before him was a barber and in fact had a shop in Wollongong for a long, long time and is still a fairly well-know identity amongst the older people in Wollongong. Dad had his own salon in Kempsey I think it was, Sydney Kempsey not the one up the north coast. That must have been just after he came out of the army. He was a Sergeant Armourer during the war. Fortunately he didn’t go overseas. When he came out he went back into his trade. When we moved down to Wollongong he went into the shop with his father for a while and then went into the steel works as a tally clerk, later to be called a wharf recorder.
What sort of influence do you think he had on you, apart from the decision to take you out of the Spastic Centre School?
PG: Obviously that was probably one of the biggest influences long-term that he had. I guess probably overall, strength of character. He was a pretty hard man in my memory growing up, often cranky because he worked three shifts for thirty-odd years at the steel works. Obviously his sleep wasn’t all it should have been, especially with us younger kids around at that time. He was always pretty fair. Mind you that is with the value of hindsight, at the time I would have hotly disputed anything remotely resembling that.
Did you have brothers and sisters?
PG: Yes I had an older brother who died pretty much when I was born. He died at nineteen months. He apparently had what turned out to be a terminal kidney disease. Then there was another born about twelve months after me, then there was a good break and my sister was born some years later, probably about ten years later, and then another younger brother. All in all there are four of us who survived. I think there were eleven pregnancies, so it was a pretty torrid time.
Hard for your mother. What sort of influence do you think you got from her?
PG: Again probably incalculable the support, the softness if you like, the sensitivity. I would like to think I have inherited that as a trait. Certainly I think I have in the profession that I have chosen. I think it is a critical thing, it is no good being as strong as a bull emotionally or whatever if you haven’t got that sensitivity to blend it with. I think that is what makes a good person-person.
Your father and mother did they both agree to treat you no different to the others, so to speak?
PG: Yes it was a conscious decision, particularly on dad’s part. Mum has since told me at times it was very hard for her because obviously like any mother she didn’t like to see her offspring treated, in her mind, harshly. In fact it was just little things like if I fell over and mum would go to pick me up, or help me up or whatever and dad would say, “No, leave him alone. He will get up when he is ready,” those sorts of things. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, as I said earlier, that sort of thing has made me an infinitely better person than I would otherwise have been, there is no doubt about it.
Was your father involved with organisations, was he a joiner? Was he involved with the union, with the credit union? With any other organisation?
PG: He was a member of the union whilst he was at the steel works for thirty-odd years.
Was he active with the running of the union?
PG: No, he wasn’t an official. Going back to your earlier question about the influences, one of the things that dad always did was have his say at a meeting. At any meeting I guess, but particularly union meetings, there always tend to be a few people who will say something and the rest of the people will just follow. Dad was one of those people who if he had something to say he didn’t much give a damn about the consequences to a large extent, he had it to say and he would say it. I think I have inherited that as well.
Did he ever encourage you to speak up, or was it just by example?
PG: I can’t consciously remember any time that it was actually said to me that I should speak up or anything, but it was certainly by example and also by inference I guess over a long period of time. The whole family tends to be like that. I mean fairly easy-going for probably 90 per cent of the time, but there always reaches a point up with which you shall not put and that is the time to say something.
Now what was your first job?
PG: I was a junior clerk at the AI&S, the steel works, where I basically just recorded time-sheets on a daily basis over at the ????? Laboratory for about 200 employees there. I was there for about twelve months. Then from there went to the Illawarra County Council.
Were you studying at tech at that time?
PG: Actually when I started at the Illawarra County Council the thing to do in those days, back in 1965, was to do the Accountancy Certificate. I think almost every employee of Illawarra County Council who started around that time at some stage or another in those first years started the Accountancy Certificate. Very few got through I might add, and I was one of the ones who didn’t.
Was that the influence of the Accountant or somebody at the Illawarra County Council at the time?
PG: No I think basically if you were on the clerical side my recollection is there wasn’t that great a choice. You either became an Accountant or you stayed a clerk. I mean Personnel as a profession was really very much in its infancy in most organisations. Really apart from the things like engineering, drafting, if you weren’t that way inclined there was really only accountancy.
When did you first hear about credit unions?
PG: Actually I was a member of AI&S Credit Union at the steel works.
Who were the Directors there? Did you meet any of them?
PG: No. In those days I was very young, a very very junior person and Directors were a long way away, particularly in a credit union of some 20,000, also employees, as it would have been then.
You weren’t involved as a volunteer in the credit union at all?
PG: Not at all at that stage. In fact at the steel works it was very similar to being in a bank I guess you would say, as a member, and that would have been just about the only distinction you could make.
Didn’t they have any meetings or courses, discussions, about credit unionism?
PG: Not to my recollection at the steel works. In fact the impression one got was that it was run as a subsidiary of AI&S. In fact that probably wasn’t true and they obviously had elections for the Directors, but it was a common maybe misconception that the Directors were virtually there at the behest of AI&S.
Bill Griffith did talk about that actually. I have already interviewed him.
PG: I can imagine that might have been one of the things that were raised.
He said that they were very encouraging and allowed pay-roll deduction straight away and it was almost a company credit union, although they didn’t interfere.
PG: That is the misconception that I talk about, that they may have influenced in some way other than support. In fact when I look back now, when I did leave there and went to the County Council they actually had formed the credit union for the County Council the year before I arrived in 1964. They had actually had a meeting. In fact Stan Arneil came down and addressed the meeting. I have seen photos, some are in the office here, Bob has an album with those sorts of photos in it. Most of the employees who were involved in the formation of the ICC Staff Credit Union, as it was called in those days, were still there when I came in 1965. Like most credit unions of those days, it was a very small thing. The County Clerk as the Chief Executive of the organisation was behind it. Very keen, very supportive. He always remained that way right the way until he retired in about early 1980, 1982 I think actually.
Did you have a need for credit before you joined the credit union? If so, how did you get it?
PG: No. Looking back now I can’t quite imagine how I managed to do without it, but no I didn’t. I didn’t have a car. As I said I was only at the steel works for eleven or twelve months. I got myself into enough trouble just trying to live on my wage from week to week. In fact the salary at that time was nine pounds, two shillings and sixpence a week.
You didn’t have anything on hire purchase, or get into strife in any way with various money lenders?
PG: No. In fact I think the only thing I have ever bought on hire purchase was a H G Palmer’s transistor radio. Actually that must have been while I was in my last year of school or very early. When I was at work I can’t recall buying anything much on hire purchase. I don’t think I had the money to repay it on a weekly basis.
Apart from your schooling did you have much of a religious influence at all on your life?
PG: I would certainly have to say yes. Mum and dad are good Catholics and still remain so. Go to Mass quite regularly, etc.
There were no Catholic credit unions down in this area?
PG: Not to my recollection, none at all. My brother actually became a religious brother with the Marist Order and in fact stayed in with them for twenty-two-odd years. He then studied to be a priest for three or four years and then decided against taking his final vows. He is actually now a Probationary Officer. So religion has always been fairly prominent. I was just going to say it didn’t rub off on me as much, particularly after a full Catholic education. I certainly believe in God, but the institution itself I am afraid looking at it realistically leaves me a little cold.
The only reason I was asking that was because was there anything about being a Catholic that got you into working for the credit union?
PG: No. If anything it was almost I guess the opposite in that in the radical 1960s, for want of a better term, like most young people of my age at that stage I guess I was a bit of a radical. To some extent certainly leaning towards socialism rather than capitalism. Of course now I would like to be a capitalist myself, I aspire to that. If anything it was that radical streak if you like and the belief in, to use a corny phrase, the goodness of man, etc.
Did you get any political influence from your parents at all?
PG: Yes, indirectly again. Probably more by stint of growing up in the house. Dad has always been a Labor supporter and certainly that was always my bent if you like, towards Labor, and still remains so. I would like to class myself as a swinging voter, but realistically I would have to say it would have to be a pretty big thing to swing me. In fact I will admit to swinging in the last State elections towards Liberal and I am not quite sure I have done the right thing there, so I am doubly worried now.
What these questions are sort of leading up to, do you think it was a religious or political influence, or if not what influence, got you actually working for the credit union?
PG: I really think it is a combination of things. Both my background at home, my upbringing, and my own values, if you like. Also my experiences in particularly the first years at work at the Council. As I said it started off very early and in fact I think my first loan from the credit union was for $70, or pounds I am not sure which now, which was the excess amount for an accident I had in a Volkswagon I had purchased. I didn’t have the $70 to pay the excess to get the car fixed. I remember going before the Credit Committee, because in those days it was all volunteer obviously, a Credit Committee of three, one of whom was Claud Armstrong and Ken Furness is I think another one. I can’t remember the third, may be Bob Lachanby. Two of them are still alive, Bob unfortunately died quite a few years ago. I got the loan. I think down the track a bit further the thought went through my mind that if it could get me out of a spot like that it must be able to help a lot of other people. So I saw an inherent worth in it personally and went on from there.
Where were the Annual Meetings held? Did you attend the first one when you were a member?
PG: I honestly can’t remember. They were held in the building, certainly for the first few years from memory, maybe the meal room or something like that.
Did they put the beer on?
PG: Oh yes there was always a few beers after those sorts of things. That was the other thing that obviously influenced me, the social side of it. In fact my actual involvement at official level, if you like, started as a young fellow with the Supervisory Committee which they used to have then, it was basically I guess an internal audit type function. Never did find out exactly what we were supposed to do. But you were able to sit in on Board meetings and the Board at the time didn’t mind if you offered anything into the discussion. You obviously couldn’t vote. Sitting around I guess one of the things, when you look at it from the outside particularly in those days, was that you would look at it and think you would never be a Director because it was such a lofty position. But when you actually get involved, I found it in a lot of things through life, once you actually get involved and you start to look at the nitty-gritty and you start to compare, if you like, your own talents or what you have got to offer with what is already there, quite often, without any false modesty, you don’t suffer that badly by comparison. I guess that then sort of led from there to running for the Board and so on.
Did you go to any courses to educate you in credit union matters at that stage?
PG: Yes, there were courses. I think I would have gone to one for the Supervisory Committee. I can’t remember distinctly. The courses those days were held at Little Bay and my opinion was then, and still is actually, that they were an excellent form of training. They were a weekend course so that you would go up there on a Friday evening and you would live-in until the Sunday afternoon. They were excellent in that both the subject matter that was presented, the way it was presented, and also the camaraderie and the social interaction between people, because it was very much a young thing in those days and there was an air of I suppose pioneer spirit or whatever you want to call it, was quite exciting, particularly for a young fellow my age.
Can you remember who the people were who were lecturing at that time, tutoring you?
PG: Not really. They were mostly people involved in the movement. Occasionally at those courses they would bring in outside people and that was excellent because usually the quality of the people they brought in was very good and they were usually very professional. But a lot of the course was led by League people, as it was called then.
It was run by the League was it?
PG: Oh yes, they were all fully sponsored by the League etc. A lot of the League staff would come in and do a lot of the lecturing and certainly be there all weekend sort of thing. That was quite good.
When you were actually involved with the Supervisory Committee here at the credit union you didn’t do an awful lot of checking?
PG: No not an awful lot. We did audits on expenditure and things like that occasionally. Not a great deal. In fact in the end I think that as it became more professional the Supervisory Committee sort of fell out. The credit union used to use it in those days really as a blooding ground if you like for possible future Directors. It was an excellent way for getting people involved and letting them see what actually is involved at Board level, how to go about things. What was involved if they wanted to go further. Also the opportunity for education through training courses, etc.
You were elected to the Supervisory Committee?
PG: I think it was an election method, I honestly can’t remember.
You can’t remember who put you up?
PG: No I can’t. I certainly spoke to Bob Lachanby, who was one of the Directors at the time.
What year was it you went on the Supervisory Committee have you any idea?
PG: I was afraid you was going to ask that. It probably would have been around 1967 or 1968, I started with the Council in 1965. I stand to be corrected on that.
From your reminiscences did the credit union have a room or did it have any premises?
PG: In the early days what would happen is that Ken Furness who was the Treasurer and happened to work in the same area of the building as I was working in, at lunch-time would pull out the cheque book, literally. There were no cash withdrawals obviously in the early days, it was all done by cheque. So if you wanted to draw money out you would come up at lunch time and give Ken a withdrawal and he would write out the cheque and give you the cheque.
Was there pay-roll deduction when you first joined the credit union?
PG: Yes. As I said earlier the Chief Executive was right behind it and we commenced with pay-roll deductions almost immediately.
Now as far as your election to a Directorship, who originally sponsored you to that and can you remember what year?
PG: No. I really should get some details from Bob and have them in front of me I think if you are going to ask difficult questions like that.
As a matter of fact I believe there is a couple of your people going round recording your own credit union’s oral history, so they will get round to you.
PG: Yes I assume so and then I will certainly be prepared with dates, having been through this experience.
So when you did become a Director, do you remember your first meeting? Was it much different from being there as a Supervisory Committee member?
PG: No except that obviously you were able to talk more, I guess, which has never really been a problem for me, in fact quite the opposite. Again it really reinforced, once I got into it a bit, that I did have something to offer I felt and that I wasn’t overshadowed by some of the people who had been involved much longer.
So you were you a Chairman here?
PG: I was Chairman for three or four years I think. Going back I think I have been on the Board six years this time, and I had a break of about two years not long after I got married. After I came off the Association Board, I think about twelve months after that, I actually stood down from the Board here and had a break for a couple of years and then came back on. Whilst I was on the Association Board I was Chairman during the great bulk of that period.
How did you come to be on the Association Board, the League as it was then?
PG: Actually it was very similar to the way I got onto the credit union Board.
End Tape 1A: 4111 Words: 1 hour

RICHARD RAXWORTHY TALKING TO PETER GADD
I had just asked you how you got on the League Board and you said it was just like you got on the credit union Board. You mentioned Neville Daniels and that is as far as you got.
PG: Well very similar in that Nev who is Chairman of the ICC Staff Credit Union at the time had been on the Board for quite a lot of years, on the League Board as it was. He decided to stand down from the Board, or retire from the Board, and looking around in the area for someone who was willing to stand. In fact there weren’t any nominations and I stood on the floor of the meeting and was duly nominated, etc., at the actually Annual General Meeting to fill the vacancy. Obviously it didn’t go to an election because there weren’t any other candidates. Again that was a process of long and hard thinking. Similar to the process I mentioned before with getting on to the local credit union Board, you tend to look up at bodies, august bodies such as the League Board, Association Board, and in some awe I guess. When I did decide to stand I still obviously had some reservations about whether I had done the right thing, but again once I got there and found my feet I found it tremendous and still found I had something to offer.
Had you attended League meetings before you stood?
PG: I think whilst I was on the credit union Board I attended just about every Association meeting, League Annual General Meeting I should say. In those days they were a two-day job, unlike today. There used to be some real fire and brimstone, it was good stuff.
Were you aware of the various things that happened between the different associations, the Southern Association and such like?
PG: In those days there really wasn’t anything happening because from memory they were distinct associations, never the trio or twain or whatever would meet. There was some very real acrimony between the various associations. That is not correct actually, it wasn’t between the associations it was between individuals in the associations. Personalities, from my point of view anyway, seemed to play quite a large part in the splits if you like that have evolved over the period.
This credit union seems to have stuck with the New South Wales League, as it was, New South Wales Association as it is now, all the way through. Whose influence was that do you think?
PG: I think it is probably initially when the credit union kicked off, obviously the League kicked it off and sponsored it if you like. Subsequent to that, certainly I guess it goes back to the original Directors and subsequent Directors that we always felt we had a duty, if you like, to be part of the whole rather than hive off on our own, join what we saw as a splinter group I guess of some of the larger industrial credit unions which was basically the Southern Association as it was later named. It really grew from that and was reinforced obviously when Neville was on the League Board and subsequently myself. Since then Bob Lamond, our General Manager, has also served a term on the Board.
When you first became a member of the League Board, that would be I think 1978 I think it is. 1977 to 1981. Can you remember what were the issues when you first started on the Board?
PG: There was, I can’t remember exactly in correct date order, certainly AFC was a big one. We had a computer system at the time and it actually fell over almost at that time. I am just trying to wrack my brains at the details of it. I remember a presentation given to the Board on the formation of FCS and that we could buy into this Western Australian computer company that had the software package and everything. That was pretty traumatic stuff at the time. Obviously the bringing together of the associations, the various associations of the period, that was a big thing.
What about the insurance split? Was that finished by the time you were on?
PG: That was over. Peripheral I guess, if you like, as a credit union Board member, saw it. I think Les Robinson, from memory, was the General Manager at the time. I am just trying to think if Les was still there. I think Les was there when I first got on to the Board and was then replaced by somebody whose name I can’t recall. The General Manager is on AFCUL now. Reg Elliott replaced Les as General Manager of the League Board. That was a pretty big change. Dermot was sort of at that stage starting to ease out. I think around the time I came into it there appeared to me to be a change of style starting. I think the early days were categorised by, for want of a better term, a bit rough and ready, literally the pioneer sort of situation. Around the time I started to get involved at Association level in particular, it seemed to me that this change of style was starting to make itself apparent in that there was a concerted effort to make the League Board, Association, have a much more presentable business face. To be seen in the business community as businessmen, as a legitimate business similar to their own if you like. There seemed to be this change of style and during that time older guys like Dermot I thought started to be, for a better term, eased out I guess. In some ways it was obviously a very sad thing.
Well Dermot was long gone by the time you were on the Board.
PG: He was certainly still around in the movement.
Yes but he had left as Chief Executive Officer of AFCUL in 1974.
PG: Certainly, but I still remember him quite vividly and he was still quite involved. Maybe it was around the periphery if you like, but he was certainly involved. During Les’ period as Manager he was still around during that period. Not in a high profile position or anything like that.
When you were first on the Board were you under Kevin Bain in the first instance?
PG: Yes. I think Kevin was Chairman when I arrived.
What was he like as a Chairman?
PG: Actually I think I was particularly lucky for the full time I was on the Board. I think Kev was first, then I think Bill Howe after him. I thought they were both excellent Chairmen. I thought they controlled meetings very well. They both had, I thought, the knack of allowing you quite a lot of rein in terms of the discussion, but knew when to pull it up and knew when to if necessary tighten the reins. So certainly I had no problems with either of them as Chairmen, I thought they were both excellent.
Were there any real differences between the Directors at that time? Were there any sort of tight votes on any particular key issues?
PG: From memory, and bear in mind my faulty memory, on key issues it was very rare that there were any great differences. Obviously on a lot of other incidental things if you like, for want of a better term although some of which were important, you would have quite stark differences. I must say the whole time that I was on the Board I thought that those differences were kept at the Board table to a large extent. Obviously there were the usual politics and those sorts of things that went on, but by and large the camaraderie of the Board was quite good.
You used to go up when you finished work. What time did you leave here?
PG: I would leave work around the four o’clockish mark, drive up. We would go to a Chinese restaurant in Burwood each time for a meal. We would order maybe half a dozen dishes, because the whole Board would go all the senior staff and the General Manager and I remember old Jack Coyne used to always order lobster and black bean sauce. In fact the last time I had it was whilst I was on the Board up there. That was excellent. Then you would go down to the meeting. You would get home anywhere between, depending on the length of the meeting, eleven and one o’clock.
Did Jack Coyne insist you to drink on?
PG: No. Fortunately I was usually pretty tired by the end of the meetings. I might have a can, maybe two at the most. It was a long trip home as it was, so I was pretty careful going home.
As far as the rest of the Board membership, do you remember if there was any antipathy between any of them or any personality clashes?
PG: I think towards the end of Berry Calverley’s time on the Board I think poor Berry had started to get a bit past it. I think it got to a stage where to some extent it was a bit of an embarrassment at times. Not so much at the Board, but some of the things he was saying outside, etc. But not really. Bert Beaufoy, who was from Tamworth, I got on well with him. I got on quite well with all of the Board members. Bill Howe I still have a tremendous amount of time for and respect.
Were there any differences between Helen McIntyre and Bill Howe do you remember?
PG: There may well have been, but I wasn’t aware of them. In fact I got on particularly well with Helen, always did. Similarly with Bill. I guess that is why I am in the Personnel game now, you tend to play your cards pretty well.
Try and get on with everybody.
PG: That is a fact of life. Until, as I said, you reach a point where it starts to affect you and you feel you have got to say something. But you don’t needlessly, in my opinion, go out of your way to upset any one, no future in that.
Were there any decisions in which you had to stand out against the majority of the Board? You got voted against?
PG: There probably were, in fact there were, but nothing of any consequence. Even now at my own Board level it is not unusual for me to be on the losing side, but certainly nothing that was of any great moment.
I suppose the Savings Reserve Fund was already set up by that time? You weren’t involved on the Savings Protection Fund Committee at all?
PG: No. I was on the League Board, the Association Board, but not on any of the committees.
Do you remember anything to do with the controversy there was over using the Savings Protection Fund money to purchase the building at Burwood?
PG: No. By the time I came on the Board they were already in the building at Burwood, had been for a while I think.
Were you ever on the Union Committee? It was towards unifying the various associations. It was the Union of New South Wales Credit Union Associations. It was a Union, it was an Association of Associations.
PG: I had forgotten all about that actually. No I wasn’t. I had forgotten all about that.
The Chairman was Bill Griffith.
PG: That was one of the early steps towards trying to get some unity, if you like. I guess it was a vehicle towards the later amalgamation, for want of a better term.
Yes it was the vehicle towards it. Since you were already in the Association, the League, your credit union, you didn’t get involved in those sort of things?
PG: To some extent we did. Being on the League Board at the time, we had a meeting down here in the Down Town Motel, I think it was. Bill Howe came down. He was Chairman at the time. Bill Howe, John Moffatt who was with the Southern Association, who later ended up working at the Illawarra County Council and served on our credit union as a Chairman for some years as well. I think Bill Griffith, from memory, and myself. We had a meeting down here to discuss the possibilities of getting together. Really again it was just another step towards the final process. It was quite an amicable meeting and we threw around a lot of stuff.
Was Jim Hanson or Jim Wardle involved at all?
PG: I don’t think I have ever met Mr Wardle. From the things that were said at the time, bearing in mind that there were a lot of personality-type problems in those days, I am left with a lasting impression that a lot of the problems were caused, or helped along, by Mr Wardle and possibly Mr Hanson.
They believed in the Southern Association being a separate entity.
PG: Very much so, that was certainly the impression left with me and still is actually after all these years.
It has been suggested that if I want to get that view point I will have to get on to one or another, or both of them.
PG: From the horse’s mouth kind of thing.
Mr Daniels by the way, Neville Daniels, he is overseas at the present moment, well he is away at the present moment.
PG: He has retired so he certainly could be anywhere at all now.
I got on to him last week and he was going away and coming back in July, so I intend to get him when he comes back.
PG: He would be very much worth talking to. Hopefully his memory hasn’t deteriorated to the extent mine has, because he has been retired and has had a chance to regenerate again. He certainly would have a lot to tell because he was involved in the old Newport Schools going back that far.
Now I suppose we had better start into the check list, so to speak. As far as the accounting methods of the Association, were you involved in that at all?
PG: No. As I said earlier I had my bout with accountancy very early in my career and decided against progressing too far in that area.
Were you one of the credit unions that went in with the ATMs in the first instance with the Association, or not?
PG: Yes we were one of the original shareholders.
Put your money up front?
PG: Yes exactly. In fact that is the way this credit union has always chosen to work. We have always supported the Association. I think the only thing we have not gone into, which has been sort of association with the Association, would be the marketing effort, the regional marketing. We have chosen, with others in this area, not to participate in that. But that is about the only thing I can think of. Certainly Central Banking, all of the services offered by the League we went into almost immediately.
Were there problems down in this area during the 1970s with credit unions that weren’t financially stable, not large enough to be financially sound and were later on amalgamated? Did you amalgamate with any credit unions down here?
PG: Yes. In fact we have amalgamated with a few over the years. The major amalgamation was between our own credit union, Illawarra County Council, and the Wollongong City Council Employees Credit Union. That was a major step for both of our credit unions. In fact it is not unlike the problems of the associations where for years mainly personality differences had held back the two credit unions amalgamating. Even when I first came on to the credit union Board here, even in those days, which goes back fairly early, there was talk that the two credit unions should get together. Obviously we shared quite a lot in terms of the way we were set up, the membership and the whole thing. But there was always some of the older people on the Board who had long memories and it never came about. When it did, it was really with the change of blood over a period of time.
Was this encouraged by the Registrar?
PG: Not from memory. He certainly didn’t stand in the way of it, but it wasn’t from memory an active push if you like towards amalgamations at that time.
Were there any credit unions in this area put into the Common Board?
PG: I can’t recollect any. Sorry there was the current Illawarra Credit Union which was made up of coal mining credit unions originally. I think it was Northern Mine Workers, I can’t really remember the name, but one of those credit unions had a lot of problems and ended up as a forced amalgamation to form the Illawarra Credit Union. There was always some confusion with Illawarra Credit Union and Illawarra County Council Credit Union. But when we amalgamated we changed the name. In fact I think that was why we changed the name to ICC Staff at one stage.
What about the bond in this area? Have any of you become community credit unions in this area?
PG: Obviously Illawarra Credit Union has, and now the old AI&S Credit Union, now called City Coast Credit Union, boasts a community bond to a large extent. In our own credit union we have a community bond in the Bega area, following amalgamation of Illawarra County Council with Bega Valley County Council. In 1980, we tried to get all of the credit unions together at that stage: Bega Valley County Council Credit Union, Shoalhaven City, Electricity Department and Berrima County Council. Berrima chose not to, as did Shoalhaven City. Bega Valley County Council Credit Union came to the party and we amalgamated with them which gave us the bond down there, which then extended the Bega bond to a community bond. That is going along quite well.
And you are still operating from up here?
PG: Yes. We obviously have an office in Bega and these days with computer links and faxes, it really is not a problem. We have got an Area Manager down there and staff and it is working very well.
You haven’t had any earthquakes.
PG: No not as yet.
I was up in Newcastle last week and they were showing me their shattered buildings up there.
PG: Yes I can imagine. Rather them than us.
Bill Prince is doing well there. They are still in their building. Although it is sound the outside walls are cracked. But they had a steel frame so they were all right.
PG: You have got to be lucky sometimes.
The outside is all shattered and they are taking it to pieces.
PG: Rebuilding it. It was quite a tragic thing there is no doubt about that.
The are using the computer by remote control. They wouldn’t let them into the building.
PG: Maybe there is hope for electronics yet.
We have pretty well covered the past struggle end of things, haven’t we?
PG: May I say on that, I always tried to stay out of those sorts of things, personally. I am much more a consensus person so I figure if you can convince people through legitimate means then you are the man for the job, you have got a better chance than twisting arms.
Did you have a Chapter down here? Were you involved with a Chapter?
PG: Yes we did have a Chapter, but I wasn’t involved as an official. Certainly we used to go to meetings and that sort of thing. That really is going back a long, long time. In fact when I first came in that was the main sort of meeting ground, if you like, for local credit unions.
Where did you meet?
PG: I was afraid you were going to ask that. That really is a long time ago.
What about when?
PG: No way in the world. I think it was a monthly meeting from memory.
Who would have the papers of the Chapter down here?
PG: Bob may have some idea. I think we may still have a lot of papers here. A lot of our Directors were pretty active in those sorts of things.
What about Neville Daniels?
PG: Nev was involved. John Hamilton, who is another very long-serving Director, he was certainly involved in it. He wouldn’t have the papers now, but they may well be around the credit union somewhere.
The Chapters were part of the League weren’t they?
PG: Yes they were. They were fostered by the Association, the League at the time.
Do you remember who else was in it? What day you met?
PG: No I don’t. I don’t even remember if it was a constant meeting date, every last Friday or something like that. I think the meeting place may have been Wollongong Leagues Club, which is now Cleo’s Nightclub, but that is a guess, it just sort of rings a bell.
What about the Institute of Credit Union Directors, have you been involved with that?
PG: Yes. In fact the actual formation of the institute came out of a meeting at University of New England at Armidale. We went up there for a week-end course and out of that one of the girls actually raised the idea of forming an association and once she got back to Sydney actually got off her bum and did something about it. Actually got it done. That was the formative idea, if you like, and it went on from there.
How many of these different Schools, seminars, did you attend? Did you attend quite a lot?
PG: Yes, particularly in the earlier days. It is a learning curve I guess. In those days I was single. It was also very much a social event as well, which I think is part of the reason for the success. You knew that whilst you were going to work hard, in those days you also played pretty hard as well. It has been known to have a few beers after a course, maybe during the evening, spend a few bob on a game of cards. So there was always that as well, it was quite good and I used to attend quite a few.
Were you involved with AFCUL at all? Did you attend meetings as a delegate?
PG: When I was on the Association Board I attended a few as a delegate for New South Wales, also as a delegate of our own credit union as an observer, obviously, at the meeting. I went to quite a few, particularly in the earlier days. Tasmania, as I said earlier, Hobart, Wrest Point.
Do you remember that particular occasion?
PG: Yes I do. For a couple of reasons. One I think it is the first and last time I ever went to Tasmania. The venue obviously was quite striking, the Wrest Point Casino. As we spoke about earlier, the announcement of the tax concessions at that meeting was quite a memorable moment. Obviously the place just went into complete uproar. I am taxing my memory, but I have a feeling Frank Crean may have been there. I am not sure whether he was there or it was a telegram, or whatever. But it certainly was quite a memorable moment.
He was there all right.
PG: He announced it then himself. It was quite moving I guess in a lot of ways.
The last person before you that I interviewed was Vince Martin and he was charged with actually bringing him down there.
PG: I don’t recall him, but it was quite a tremendous thing because it was such a big thing for the movement. Also, as I said earlier during the discussion, my bent is towards Labor, so to have a promise honoured by them not long after they were in power was quite a remarkable thing. For a start I had never thought I would see the day when they got into power. Having sort of been brought up through the Menzies era it appeared there was no way in the world anyone would ever get them out of power.
Were you aware of how it was done and who by before hand?
PG: No, not really. I wasn’t involved at the League Board level at the time. Only as any credit union Director would have been.
It wasn’t the League directly, it was Dermot at AFCUL. Vince Martin was the Member for Banks.
PG: Now that you mention the Member for Banks, I do recall him.
He was Chairman of the Income Tax Credit Union as well.
PG: That helped. As I said it was a very memorable time.
End Tape 1B: 4172 Words: 1 hour 20 minutes