25 FEBRUARY 1992: VCCA28: RICHARD RAXWORTHY TALKING TO MARLENE JACKSON
I will ask you, well I suppose I shouldn’t ask you, where were you born and when?
MJ: You can certainly ask me. I was born right here in Melbourne in 1934.
Where abouts in Melbourne?
MJ: At Carlton actually, at the Women’s Hospital.
Did you grow up around that area?
MJ: I spent most of my life until twenty-two in Melbourne. I was educated in Melbourne. Then did nurse training in Melbourne. Then I scooted out.
What sort of influence did you get from your parents, do you think?
MJ: Well my father joined the navy when I was two, so I don’t ever recall living with my father, although I used to see him on holidays. Then my parents divorced when I was ten so I lived with my mother. But I kept very strong ties with my father’s family, because I spent all my school holidays with my grandparents.
Were they a big influence on you?
MJ: Well yes they were, because in actual fact I found they were a very stabilising influence. They were always there. I had a maiden aunt, who lived with them. So yes they were. My grandfather was a good old time woodcutter, worked in the saw mill. My grandmother of course had home duties. My aunt sort of worked in office duties in a few places every now and again, but sometimes she was there too. My mother was there, but she worked during the War too.
What was the main influence, work?
MJ: We became very self-sufficient, my sister and I. I think that is probably the biggest thing I learnt from my family influence, to be independent and to have a wide range of thinking. They were, both sides of the family, are quite different. One were really Labor people and the others were really Liberal people, so there was a fair bit of difference in them.
So when you went to school, where did you go first?
MJ: I went to a hotch-potch of schools actually for a while, because we lived in a few places in Melbourne. But most of my primary education was at St Kilda Park State School, not far from here. But I had gone to Glen Huntley and I had gone to Hampton. I had spent one term with my grandparents who lived as Macedon going to the little local school up there. I had been ill so it was decided, seeing as my mother was working, it would be best if I went there. Then I came back to East St Kilda and I went again to St Kilda Park State School. Then I went to Elwood Central for two years, then I went to McRobertson Girls’ High School for my final four years of school.
What did you like or dislike about school? What were you good at?
MJ: I generally liked school. I mean going to St Kilda Park was interesting because it was a Jewish area and this was during the War. I had a couple of Jewish friends actually, which was sometimes not considered a good idea because they were really considered Germans and we were fighting them. I was a reasonable student so I didn’t mind that. I was not much good at sport. Then my high school, I really loved going to high school. We got a very good education and a very rounded education. We all had to do some music of some sort. We generally did some sort of literature and acting. We had compulsory sport, which wasn’t a bad idea. I had a good education, I really liked going there.
So when did you leave school? I don’t mean what year, but you had to leave school? You couldn’t go on?
MJ: No. I went to what is now Year 12 but I had already decided to be a nurse before that. I had got what was called the Nursing Bursary, which paid a certain amount of money. I forget how much, but it was like a scholarship. Then you were obliged to go and do nursing, which really wasn’t a problem. So I went and did my nurse training as soon as I was finished.
Where did you do that?
MJ: Well I did the training at the Melbourne School of Nursing which had only had students for ten years. But we went and did part of our training at the Royal Melbourne, Fairfield Children’s and the Royal Women’s. So we did a fair bit. That was always a very good training actually and I am sorry it fell in the hole.
What was it like training as a nurse in those days? Were they strict with you? Did you have any time off? Were you allowed out? What years was it by the way?
MJ: 1952 I started, three years, to 1955. Yes they were very strict. They were very strict at the Melbourne. You had to live in the Nurses’ Home and you had to be in at eleven o’clock at night. You might be allowed one late pass but then the night watchman had to let you in and you had to sign the book etc. But there were always ways you could find your way around those.
My wife was a nurse and I know the questions to ask. My mother was a nurse as well, as a matter of fact.
MJ: They expected a fair bit of discipline but I don’t think that really worried me. I had been used to discipline. I mean we were disciplined at school. You were expected to obey the rules and you could get along within that, so you could do that. But then you knew how to break the bits too, didn’t you. I generally enjoyed my training. Then you went to somewhere like Fairfield and they were much more liberal there. The charge nurses were more liberal too. They would explain things better to you and it was a little freer and easier. They would sometimes let you off duty early, so that was a bit different to see that. But then again the actual nursing of infectious diseases was very strict, but then that was good, I think it balanced out the other way.
Did you feel during your nursing training that some of the senior nurses who were over you were being unreasonable in their demands?
MJ: Oh of course. Of course, absolutely. I will give you one instance of where I consider it was quite unreasonable. I had just finished making a bed in a ward and I moved out but I saw the Supervisory Sister sort of follow me. She followed me out to the pan room where I was and she said, ‘Who are you?’ So I said, ‘Nurse Jackson,’ but she could already read that. She said, ‘Were you just making that bed?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ She said, ‘Why don’t you do it the way you’re taught.’ Well I considered I had. She said, ‘But you know you fold the blankets in four, not three.’ She had made this special effort to follow me and it was all a bit petty that sort of thing. We had been taught to fold them in three anyway. But I don’t think I gave her too much cheek it was easier to say, ‘Yes, Sister,’ and do it your on way next. Some charge nurses, the senior ones had only ever lived in a Nurses’ Home and they had just progressed up the scale because when you had been there the longest you got the job. It had nothing to do with whether you were competent.
How long did you remain a nurse?
MJ: I only stopped nursing two years ago. But of that, I have spent twenty-four years as a Nurse-Teacher. When I was at school I didn’t know whether I wanted to be a teacher or a nurse but I opted for the nurse. Then I got the best of both things because I became a Nurse-Teacher, which I really enjoyed.
As far as nursing is concerned, you’ve stuck with that so it must have given you some satisfaction during the period that you were at it.
MJ: I made myself a promise that I wouldn’t be nursing after I was thirty, having had a look at all the old maids in it. But when I was thirty actually that is when changed direction and became a teacher. I justified it to myself that well I wasn’t really doing what the old maids were doing over there in the wards. Beside that I had gone to a hospital to work which was really much more progressive, their attitude to staff was a lot more progressive than a lot of places. They treated all staff there as though you had some brains, some hospitals don’t, they still don’t.
Yes indeed. Are you now educating graduate nurses? Nurses who do a degree in nursing?
MJ: No, I am not nursing now, I stopped two years ago. But I worked at the same place, which was a geriatric hospital, a large one, in Bendigo. We trained enrolled nurses, about one hundred a year, and we had a post-basic course for Registered Nurses and we had two intakes a year of twelve an intake. Then we did other orientation programs and refresher courses. So I dealt with quite a range. Then the Education Department was also responsible for in service education to all other staff, like the domestic staff. So I got to know a lot of people doing that.
When did you first hear about the credit union?
MJ: When I was working at this same hospital. Some of the staff there decided to set up a credit union at where we worked. So they had a meeting of people and I thought it sounded a pretty good idea. I was number nineteen to join that. So that was in 1971. That is how heard about it. The people who set that up were very interested in a sort of co-operative movement.
Did you know the ones who set up the credit union?
MJ: Ah yes, because they were all staff. The Treasurer and the Secretary were both staff members too, they had their work duties to do as well. So I yes I knew them pretty well. I had been asked to be a Director initially but I had another meeting that I had to go to the same night, so I didn’t do that. But then I got voted out at one of those meetings, it was the union actually, so there was a vacancy coming up on the Board so I went on to the Board in 1972.
Were you politically active in the union?
MJ: Look the Nurses’ Union was not politically active in those days. That only came later. I have to say that when things started to get like that, I got out. No my real reason for getting out was when they took the vote that nurses would go on strike and the vote was in favour of that, mostly because of the way it was worded. I decided I could no longer belong to a union where nurses would go on strike so I resigned from that.
Then you started to be involved in the credit union.
MJ: That’s right.
So who first asked you to be involved as a Director, can you remember?
MJ: Well I think it was just the few who really wanted to set it up where we worked. I don’t remember initially. I remember John Buckwest was the Treasurer, so I suspect he was probably one. I just remember listening to the initial conversations and I just thought it was a good idea, still do.
So what job did you get at first?
MJ: Just a Director.
But was the credit union being run by a Manager or staff?
MJ: No. There were seven Directors and then there was a person who acted as the Treasurer and a person who acted as the Secretary. Then between nine of us we used to take it in turns to sit there for an hour and a half, or two hours, and do the books in our lunch time. We were given a space. Management was excellent to us I must say always.
Did you have pay-roll deductions?
MJ: Yes. That started at the very beginning. Pay-roll deductions then we used to do the little bits in the book, take our turn. The management were very good and let us have an hour at least for lunch when that was not your allotted time.
The accounting was done how?
MJ: Well it was all done by hand by the Treasurer and the Secretary. We didn’t have to add up at the end of the day. That wouldn’t have been any good for me.
But did they have a Kalamazoo system in the first instance, or an accounting machine?
MJ: I think they used to use one of the firm’s things to work it on. I think they were allowed to use the firm’s accountancy system.
What was it a manual system or a machine?
MJ: They did have some sort of a machine. I don’t think it was a Kalamazoo, because they had that at Bendigo when I first went down there.
Was it perhaps an accounting machine, or a punch card machine?
MJ: Yes it was some sort of accounting machine. That’s a long way back for me.
But you never got to use it?
MJ: No. I just had to fill in and initial the books, that was enough.
The Accountant at the hospital did the accounting did he?
MJ: Yes. Well he worked in the Accountancy Department, yes.
So you just had to turn up at Board meetings then or did you take your turns at entering the amounts in the ledger?
MJ: Well we used to have to do that. We would enter the bits in the pass-books and take the money.
Did you have a system of cards to put the transactions on, or what?
MJ: No. They used to bring in their pass-book and we would just enter it in that. I suppose we had to write it on something else too, didn’t we?
I think you must have.
MJ: I think we had to. There was some other thing we used to have to write it on. Then you had to see if your money was the same as that at the end. But one of the fellows used to come down and help you do that.
What if it didn’t balance?
MJ: Oh I don’t remember what happened then.
Did it ever not balance?
MJ: No, I don’t think so, I think it did balance. The staff would have been honest enough to come and tell you if they got the wrong money in those days.
But that is not the point is it?
MJ: It was such a pet of everyone who belonged then. No I don’t every remember it not balancing.
You mentioned Dermot Ryan. That you had met Dermot Ryan. He was known to have reckoned he invented single entry bookkeeping.
MJ: I could believe he would. Yes that would be right. I met Dermot in 1975, when I went to my first AFCUL Annual Meeting, which was their Tenth Annual Meeting I think.
That was his farewell wasn’t it?
MJ: That’s right. That was not the pleasantest, best occasion for him. That was when Kevin Murray took over as CEO?
He never actually had the title of CEO, it was always EO.
MJ: Yes. That’s right. Well I didn’t know much about that at the time, all what was going on.
You didn’t realise what had happened to Dermot at all?
MJ: Well I didn’t understand. I mean I knew something was happening, but I did not understand at the time, no.
But you met him at that time and he made an impression apparently?
MJ: Oh he makes an impression on anyone doesn’t he? He was a man that was larger than life though wasn’t he. He truly believed in himself and what he was about. I didn’t agree with some of his ideas, which you could argue about, but it was a waste of time arguing. He had total belief in his ideas, didn’t he? I think he was a marvellous man really. I mean he loved people, didn’t he.
Do you still go and see Meg?
MJ: Yes, I do. You have to love her too. A lovely lady.
So when you got into the position of a Director then, when did you become involved with the VCCA and how did that come about?
MJ: My first involvement with the VCCA, direct involvement, would have been in 1983-1984, when I was invited to be on the Ethics Committee. They wanted to set up a code of conduct, code of ethics committee. So I used to come down to meetings. That was my first real involvement with anything to do with the VCCA, except for attending Annual Meetings and Chapter meetings where you met the staff. In the early days they had Field Officers, so you always sort of knew the people a bit more. But then again there were less of you, so you always knew people. I really enjoyed that. I mean I have a part in my life about conduct anyway, and ethics, so I enjoyed that. Then when the transition to having the Councils was being set up it was suggested to me that I have a go for one of the Councils. So I thought about that, because I had a fair bit of work to do at the time at work and responsibility and travelling up and down. But I decided I would have a go at that at the election and I got voted on the Council. Then I was one of the ones nominated from the Council to be on the Board, which was really an utter surprise to me. I knew that two were going on to the Board and I hadn’t really considered that one of those really might be me. That meant a fair bit of extra time, but that was really a great experience. I enjoyed both being on the Board and the Council.
Were you the only woman in the Council, or on the Board?
MJ: No. In the Council there were three women, in fact there were three women and three men.
Was Eileen West on that to, or not?
MJ: No, this was after Eileen’s time with the VCCA. She was the first woman on the Board here. I was the only woman for a year, then Jean Meckie came on.
Did you ever think that you were a token woman?
MJ: No I don’t think I was the token woman at all. I don’t ever think that I have been a token woman because I am not the type that I put myself in a position where I will be used just because I’m the woman to be there. I was the only woman on North-West in all the time I was there. So I don’t think that way. The men might think you are a token woman, but they didn’t treat me as if I was a drip.
Well that is good. What is the first thing that you remember at Board meetings? The various Chairmen, how many did you serve with?
MJ: The VCCA? Richard was the Chairman I think when I first started, then Gavin. Then Phylip. But Phylip might have only been one meeting. Then I moved off the Board so that they could get one of the National Directors on. I don’t know if you knew all the plan, oh you must know that. Well I moved off the Board, resigned from the Board, so that one of the Trade Councillors, who was also a National Director, could go on the Board. Not that that was a hardship to me, I don’t want to imply that.
Was that voluntary, or did they ask you to stand down?
MJ: No nobody asked me to. I was really the obvious choice to do it, to keep the system going properly. I mean I firmly believed in a national credit union movement and fully supported all the changes that had to occur. It was my decision that I was the most natural one to move off it and do that.
When you first were on the VCCA Board, do you remember the Board meetings under Richard Crosbie? I mean what sort of style did he have?
MJ: Richard allows the participants to dictate the running of the meeting, well he did in the VCCA. Although you hardly notice when Richard pulls a pin on discussion, to get it back on line, if that makes any sense.
He did do that, did he?
MJ: Yes. Well he could do it. But he would allow meetings, everyone to have as much say as they wanted to. So it was possible to say what you think. I mean Gavin took the place very quickly after, so Gavin was the one that I would have seen mostly as the Chairman.
How was he different?
MJ: Oh well Gavin was different in that he would try and keep to the agenda. Mind you the participants don’t always allow you to do that do they? But once again, everyone could still have their say at the meetings. I find that an advantage at that level, because I think people are generally professional enough that they can. So he in a way had a flow-on style too, to allow that. But then you probably knew Gavin’s point of view really in discussions.
You didn’t know Richard Crosbie’s?
MJ: Well only because you know Richard and what you think he might know. He can allow everyone to say before you find out really what he things. Whereas with Gavin you are more likely to know his idea.
So Richard is really more the captain of the ship style of thing. Give everybody else their say and then he tells you what the story is.
MJ: I have never thought about it that way. In a way that is true with Richard. He does it in a very quiet way. Mind you what I really admire about Richard is his style of being able to speak at big meetings, or even little meetings, to pull everyone together. I have seen him do that at the Board meetings here when he was just a Board member. I have seen him be able to do that. He is a quiet participant as a Board member, but he really has the gift of being able to say the right things to get everyone back where we should be.
So how is Gavin different?
MJ: Gavin had his own style of getting things done too. I can’t quite remember how he does that. I mean he allows people their say, too, doesn’t he. The other thing is, Gavin used to rely on the CEO to prompt him to keep to the agenda, but he was very responsive to that. Then again, he used that so I suppose that is the way he did it, by pulling back to the Minutes and the agenda of the meeting. He could keep things going.
Phylip Doughty? Well he was only there for one meeting before you went off.
MJ: Yes I haven’t seen Phyl at too much.
End Tape 1A: 3960 Words: 1 hour 30 minutes.
I asked you about Phyl Doughty and we didn’t give you time to reply so to speak, but you said you were surprised by his style.
MJ: I suppose it was partly his style, but Phyl at meetings as a Board member was never short of word, but he always knew what he was speaking about. He always did his homework before he came to meetings so always knew what he was talking about. He always had a view and opinion on everything. So I was interested when he became a Chairman if he was going to be able to keep that a bit quiet, which he can do. He is able to become a very unbiased Chairman at a meeting and people listen. But I sort of thought the meetings lacked a bit when Phyl was in the Chair, I liked him round the Board where you could get the benefit of his point of view more. But I think he has done a pretty good job of being Chairman.
The changes of Chairmanship, how did this come about? I mean for instance how did Richard Crosbie’s standing down at that stage of the proceedings. I have heard various versions of this and I am not quite sure exactly how it happened. What is your view point?
MJ: Well I was in the know before I was elected to the Board that some of the Board members wanted Richard to go because they thought he was lacking direction. So I think it was fairly pre-planned before. I don’t know whether we need to spill all this now, do you we? But I was in the know, I sort of knew that. I had made it clear to Gavin that I would vote for him and that if they all said that it was worth the change then I was willing enough to be in on that.
What about where Phylip Doughty stood?
MJ: Well I think other members of the Board had decided that it was time that Gavin went. Now I wasn’t greatly in the know about that because I was seen as one of Gavin’s supporters, I think. Not that I minded Phylip becoming the Chairman at all, and it probably in hindsight was a good decision to give a bit of a change again. Chairman often don’t last too long do they? Everything starts going along in the same old way.
Well Richard Crosbie is back again as Chairman now of course.
MJ: Is he? I didn’t know that. Is he?
I think he is, isn’t he? I think he is back. Now he is Chairman of everything, virtually. The new body in AFCUL of course, he is sort of Chairman of all the bits and pieces that are left over from the old organisation, see.
MJ: Yes, well I knew he was Chairman of the AFCUL, or whatever it is known as now. But I don’t get any news now so I am well behind with what is going on at the moment. It is no good asking for anything that is happening now.
Of course, yes. Were you involved with AFCUL?
MJ: No not particularly. I am interested in AFCUL but I can’t say that I have ever really been involved.
You have never been a delegate?
MJ: Yes, representing the VCCA. Yes I was when we went to Perth and in Singapore. So I have been a delegate, that would be true. Yes, so I have. I think there must have been another one, that would be Melbourne wouldn’t it.
1988. Were you involved in the setting up of that? Were you involved in the World Council meeting there?
MJ: No more than being at the VCCA and watching what was happening and supporting the move when Alan, what’s his other name, he is on the Board here and he is on the AFCUL Board, do you know who I mean. He is a teacher.
Alan Dash?
MJ: No. He is on the Board. God how terrible not to know his surname. The involvement was down here that as the VCCA Board we were getting a bit concerned that things weren’t getting organised well enough from the Melbourne end for WOCCU. So it was put to us about Alan Parry working from this end, to sort of help get it going. So from that point of view I know about it. Then I attended it and I did one or two little chores down there, but that was because I was simply a member of the Board. But no I didn’t have any organising to do with it.
Were you on any committees while you were on the Board? Legislative?
MJ: Well no, I mostly didn’t get on the committees because I was in the country and it wasn’t as easy for me to come down. I think they felt kindly that I came down at least twice a month anyway for the Council meeting and the Board meeting. I didn’t get the extra bits. Besides that, we didn’t have many committees. Mostly things were dealt with at the Board meeting.
You must have had a Legislative Committee?
MJ: Well yes, but I was not on it.
Was there an Education Committee at all?
MJ: No.
No, not at that stage, they were earlier on.
MJ: You see when we had the two Councils here, the Business Council and the Trade Association Council, I mean they really picked up the works of a lot of committees. We had some other committees that people nominated from credit unions were on. But as I said I didn’t get to those.
What about Chapters, were you involved in any of those?
MJ: Well at the beginning we had a Chapter at Bendigo when there were several credit unions in Bendigo. But then it got to the point where they all just about got amalgamated together into Bendigo. St Mary’s closed and St Theresa’s, they all sort of folded. Then the ones in the Chapter like Maryborough and Kyneton, they amalgamated too. So we ended up that Bendigo Credit Union was the Chapter. It was not a very active Chapter I might say because we were virtually the only credit union. So in the last couple of years we have decided to try and participate in the North-Eastern Chapter with Goulburn Valley and WAW. I used to make it my business to try and get to one or two of those meetings, but they have never worked very well as Chapters.
What about Regional meetings, did you ever have any of those?
MJ: No, not like New South Wales do. The thing what we did in Bendigo, we would scoot down to the stuff in Melbourne. You get used to coming up and down, so you do that.
In the early days did you go to any of the Schools, credit union Schools?
MJ: Yes, I went to two that were held in Healesville. I wasn’t in the early Warburton days. That got burnt down the first year. But I did go to a couple in Healesville, yes. Then another one that they held in Parkville in Melbourne when a couple of guys from Canada came out. So yes to the early ones. Then another thing the VCCA used to have with their Annual Meeting, they used to hold that over two days. So one day was spent as a type of seminar day and the other day was the Annual Meeting. So in those days we used to come down for both the days.
What about the Institute of Credit Union Directors, were you involved in that at all?
MJ: When that formed, yes I was in that. I used to come down to the meetings.
Where did it form in Victoria?
MJ: Actually it became at its most active when some of the disaffiliated credit unions got to supporting it. You know I think there was an honest attempt by Directors to try and continue to meet as Directors of credit unions, despite the disaffiliations. So we used to come down to those meetings. But then the disaffiliation and the ones that were in with the VCCA and the ones who were out of the VCCA, it was a bit uncomfortable at some of the meetings actually.
When you were involved with the Institute of Credit Union Directors it started particularly in Victoria that section? Or did it come over from New South Wales, or whatever?
MJ: Well I know Police were the ones who tried to pick it up. Now whether there had been an Institute of Credit Union Directors and whether it had fallen by the wayside, I know Police organised a meeting to try and get it going again. Several of us from Bendigo came down to try and support it.
The woman who really started it actually, well she did the work anyway, was Renata de Mille. Did you know her at all?
MJ: No.
She wasn’t in the movement very long I don’t think. They were saying, We should,’ and she said, ‘I will,’ and she did. She did the leg work to actually start it off. Apparently it started from an AFCUL seminar at Armidale.
MJ: I could believe that, but not that I was at that.
They were apparently waiting for a plane and it had been foggy and they couldn’t get a plane out so they were talking at the airport.
MJ: Mind you, it is badly needed and I think very important for Directors to have such an association. I don’t know that I really think that Managers and Directors should have each their own, I am not convinced about that. But certainly as time went on there was a great dearth of education for Directors. Then that really purposely occurred. When I first started the Managers and the Directors were really on the same footing, you know, all not knowing much so you all went to the seminars together. Then as the credit unions got bigger and you put in full-time Managers and some professional full-time Managers, they started their own meetings. They really left the Directors behind, who allowed themselves to be left behind too. So you got at one stage some Managers getting to know what was going on and the Directors not. I think there are too many uneducated Directors. I would have put myself getting into that at the end too, because there didn’t seem to be enough. I thought I knew a fair bit about credit unions but I certainly was not participating in enough education about them.
Did you get involved in the computerisation of your credit union?
MJ: No.
What about the computerisation battles there were in Victoria?
MJ: I didn’t get particularly involved in those. Our Manager was, I think, fighting with other people. But no, I just listened to the recommendations and what might be the best one to purchase and hoped I’d made a sensible decision. Then again, the first one we got was sold by a con-man, Steele, who wasn’t all that good.
What haven’t we covered? There must be a lot. What about the Savings Reserve Fund, were you involved in the push towards that?
MJ: Well as a credit union we certainly supported that. In fact at one seminar I remember that was discussed. That was really something that we supported. We used it a lot in the early days. The Reserve Fund was with us when we had to take over one or two other credit unions. So I know a bit about them.
The Savings Stabilisation Fund before that?
MJ: That was before that, yes.
Were you involved in that?
MJ: No. It was there I think. It was there and it was part of it and I just knew it was there, that’s all.
They sort of took a soft line here, the Savings Stabilisation Fund because in New South Wales the Registrar was very tough and the League was very tough too. They used to go in and change the locks on the credit union on a Friday and take a team in and start on Monday morning. What is more they lost two as well, that were unaffiliated and people lost money out of it. Well it didn’t happen in Victoria.
MJ: No. But then the Registrars I don’t remember being very strong sort of people, ever, from the ones that I remember back to. A couple were quite pleasant but not noted for their sensible decisions either.
You didn’t have any failures.
MJ: Perhaps, maybe not.
There aren’t any failures where members lost money in Victoria.
MJ: That’s true.
There were two very bad ones in New South Wales when they disaffiliated.
MJ: Yes well that’s right. But we are such a small State everyone knows what everyone else is doing, before you know it yourself.
You didn’t go on any deputations, political deputations?
MJ: No.
Did you hear about any?
MJ: I suppose I have.
The one where Dermot Ryan went to Sir Henry Bolte, did you hear about that?
MJ: No.
Dermot Ryan saw the cigarette box and said, ‘Sir Henry can I have one of your fags?’ Sir Henry said, ‘Yes.’ They got that one to, it was the stamp duty, they got the concession. They didn’t even have to re-write the legislation. They wrote it in such a way that it didn’t have to be regulated.
MJ: You can see what a large part Dermot played in the credit union though. Whether it was all good, or all bad he was a very large influence wasn’t he?
Yes. The taxation on the Federal scene too.
MJ: Yes.
Who worked with him in Victoria? Or who did Dermot work with in Victoria? I know he worked with the Murray people.
MJ: Yes, then you see Brian McMahon, our Manager at Bendigo, had a fair bit to do with him too. I think he was pretty well accepted by people in the VCCA too, I think, down here. Who was at the VCCA when I first came on? Geoff Conrad was the first Manager of the VCCA when I joined. I don’t know I just always remember that Dermot seemed to be hanging around.
You were a Director when Geoff Conrad ceased to be Manager. Did you have anything to do with that?
MJ: No, nothing. That was Mike Hildebrand coming. No, nothing to do with that, no.
So how many different Managers were here when you was a Director?
MJ: I had forgotten about Leon Turner, it was only short. I remember Leon because he was one of the ones who wanted to get that project at Daylesford off the ground. Jubilee Lake.
Did you have anything to do with that?
MJ: Well we are pretty close to that in Bendigo. Yes we were a great supporter of that and it was going to be marvellous. Some of our money went down the drain too, yes. But the rest of the movement thought it was a mad idea. It is a pity, it was a good idea just didn’t have the money did we. Mike Hildebrand, now he was good. He really got things fired up. It is just that he did a couple of unorthodox sort of things, I think. I don’t know. Phillip Elliott. I know Phillip from his early days in Bendigo because he worked for some sort of finance company in Bendigo before he moved down to Melbourne. Then when Phillip was working for the Reserve Board, or the Registrar, we saw a bit of him in Bendigo too. He is not a great fan of Bendigo Credit Union, Phillip. I suppose the feeling is fairly mutual.
Did Bendigo Credit Union have their problems?
MJ: Oh yes. More than enough problems. David Dinning, well David was here a good bit. I was on the Board when David resigned.
Can you remember that?
MJ: I certainly do.
Was there a battle in the Board?
MJ: Absolutely.
Which side did you take?
MJ: I took the side of David going. I think this is the brief I took with me when I went to the Board. The VCCA needed a change in direction. I saw that. I mean David is a very nice gentleman, but it needed some change there. So I went there with a brief and I was on the side of David going. It is not something I am proud of, it was something that was necessary to happen.
So what was his weakness? After all he feels still that he didn’t get proper support from the Board on many occasions.
MJ: Well that may be so, and he went not long after I was here. I would have no doubt that David would say that I as a Board member was one not to support him too, which I suppose was virtually true when I came here. The management was becoming tired and it was not enough businesslike. It had to become a little more businesslike for awhile and David couldn’t do that because he was great on the philosophy and ideals of people side, but it needed more an injection of businesslike for awhile. The other thing is, I don’t think the Board was getting all the information it should have been either. I don’t mean that David was deliberately not giving it, but I felt as a Board members there were times that we weren’t being given all the information, or the right information. So you couldn’t make the decision. I think because of how he felt about credit unions then you were given more of the philosophy side rather than the hard business, which was pretty important to have.
Now did you have anything to do with the Teledata story? The CUE card?
MJ: Well the Teledata story, I can’t remember the details of that either except that Ken Steele who put in our computer had something to do with all that too. He was a computer whiz con-man, who flew his own aeroplane and smoked everyone else’s cigarettes. But I can’t remember the details of that at the time either. I thought I understood at the time, but I can’t remember well enough now.
Your credit union did they have some problems?
MJ: Yes.
Right. So what should we cover that we haven’t covered? That is a bit of negative stuff. More positive what are you proud of what happened during your period on the Board?
MJ: With the VCCA, well I would have to say that my greatest personal satisfaction of the time I was on the Board was the decisions made by Victoria to become part of a national movement. Being part of that and getting that really moving to the point that it was going to happen. That I think would be the best thing I remember at it. Really I am very proud of the achievements of the Board in that they set to make the decision and then they kept it going. Although I think as a Board there was still an amount of uncertainty about it. But they really tried to swallow their Victorianism for the sake of something to do with Australia and I think that was pretty difficult for some of them to do. It was a decision that I thought they made pretty well in the end.
Any regrets about your time in credit unions and particularly the VCCA? You put in a lot of time on voluntarily in credit unions and the VCCA.
MJ: No. I really enjoyed the VCCA. I probably would like to have some involvement with the Victorian movement, or the national movement, which I haven’t. That’s all.
Well you could stand again.
MJ: You have to be nominated by your credit union and I don’t think the credit union would nominate me.
Have you had some problems with the home base?
MJ: I would say that generally there would be people at North-West that don’t feel very friendly towards me, or don’t think I am their friend either, let’s just leave it at that.
Well let’s end on a more positive note and ask you another question. Can you think of anything I have left out that I should have asked you?
MJ: I feel very positive about credit unions and there place in society and what they should be doing. I think that within the movement, I will say nationally, there are some very good people who will continue to steer it in a direction that establishes them as part of Australian society. I think every person should have the opportunity to belong to a credit union and join it, because they do offer a service that is co-operative and that you feel like you can belong. Not like many other financial places. So I am very positive about credit unions. I am sure they are here to stay despite the people higher up making it more and more difficult. I mean they put more and more regulations in to make it more and more difficult all along the way. Is that positive enough?
That is pretty positive, thank you very much Marlene Jackson.
End Tape 1B: 3569 Words: 1 hour 20 minutes.