30 APRIL 1994: WA4: RICHARD RAXWORTHY TALKING TO REG BEALE

What is your full name, Mr Beale?

RB:      Reginald Alan Beale.

What year were you born?

RB:      I was born in 1946.

Where abouts was that?

RB:      In Rangoon in Burma, actually.

That is a colourful one. Where did you grow up?

RB:      I grew up in Australia. I was twelve months old when I came here. I was born just after the War and came straight out here then.

So you grew up where?

RB:      First in Fremantle. Then Roleystone.

Where is that?

RB:      Roleystone is about twenty miles out of the city.

How do you spell that?

RB:      R-o-l-e-y-s-t-o-n-e.

Where did you go to school?

RB:      I started at school in Roleystone. I then went to Inglewood. Then went to Queen’s Park.

Which is the high school?

RB:      The high school that I went to was Governor Stirling Senior High School in Midland.

Where did you go to work first?

RB:      I started work with the Fire Brigade on 2 June 1962. While I was in the Fire Brigade I was working as the Treasurer of the credit union. I was the Pay Master in the Fire Brigade Then in October 1971 I moved across full-time in the credit union.

You became Secretary-Manager did you?

RB:      That is correct, yes.

Well when did you first hear about credit unions?

RB:      Well my first involvement with credit unions was with the CSA Credit Union back in the 1960s.

When they started? What was their first name by the way? I have got arguments about that.

RB:      Yes. Well I thought it was the Civil Service Association Credit Union.

I have just been talking to the old Registrar, Tom Duke, and he tells me it didn’t start as that.

RB:      Well I always knew it as that name.

Do you remember if that was the first credit union, or was the ABC first?

RB:      The ABC I think was first.

I have got them down as the same year.

RB:      Similar years, yes.

I tell you the name of the credit union that Tom Duke reckons was the first, he reckons it was called the Loans Titles Office. He reckons the CSA came out of that.

RB:      Well it could have done.

Well he is the only one who reckons that. I have got several people that agree with you.

RB:      Well I certainly don’t know of it. I only know of it as the Civil Service Association, because that was the industrial union that I joined when I joined the Fire Brigade.

Well that is what the others tell me. Were you a foundation member of the credit union?

RB:      Fire Brigade Credit Union?

No the CSA?

RB:      No, not at all.

So there still might be some doubt as to the original name. All right I have got a card of a CSA bloke here.

RB:      The original Manager of the CSA I think was Lew Louthean.

Is that right. What have I got down here? Lew Louthean, that’s right, CSA and then Health. Incidentally the phone number of Lew Lothian that I have got is the wrong one because I am getting the unavailable.

RB:      I have not seen Lew Lothian in a long time.

So he has probably left there. The one I have got is a Perth one and he is not there, there is nobody there if you get what I mean. What’s more there is nobody in the phone book under his initials. His initials are L G and the spelling is Louthean. There is nothing in the phone book under that. Well you joined the CSA Credit Union, have you any idea what year that was?

RB:      Oh I possibly would have joined it virtually when I started to work with the Fire Brigade.

So that would be 1962. Well it hadn’t long started.

RB:      No, that is right, it hadn’t been going very long.

So were you a foundation member of the Fire Brigade’s credit union?

RB:      Yes.

What year was that?

RB:      That registered in November 1969 and started actual operation on 1 January 1970.

Right, registered in 1969.

RB:      Commenced operation 1 January 1970.

You was Treasurer from the start?

RB:      Yes.

So you were Foundation Treasurer. Did that make you on the Board or just on the Executive?

RB:      No, I was just the Executive that’s all. I wasn’t on the Board. I wasn’t a Director or anything.

Did you ever become a Director?

RB:      No.

In the early days of the credit union was it all volunteers?

RB:      Yes, it was all volunteers for the first eighteen months or so. In fact I used to run it from my back verandah here at home.

Were there pay-roll deductions right from the start?

RB:      Yes. Pay-roll deductions right from the start.

That was handy.

RB:      Yes. We did a lot of things right from the start. Budget accounts, you name it. All sorts of things.

Did they have pay-roll deductions at the CSA?

RB:      Yes.

Right from the start?

RB:      Well right from my commencement, anyway.

That’s good. I suppose being late they were going elsewhere. They had their first pay-roll deduction battles very early.

RB:      Yes, well my time in the Department of Aviation, at that stage in time, I had Dermot Ryan doing negotiations to the Commonwealth to get pay-roll deductions for them.

Were you on the League from the start?

RB:      No. I wasn’t involved in the League as a Director until the time of winding up of the League.

1973. Was it 1973?

RB:      No, it was later than late I think.

The Association started in 1974 I think didn’t it?

RB:      The State Association? In 1974?

Well that is what I had it down as.

RB:      I don’t know, but I have got the books in the office.

Ah have you?

RB:      Yes I have got all the Minute Books of both the Savings Protection Fund and the Credit Union League.

Right.

RB:      I have guarded those very, very closely. People have wanted them off me and I have said no. I am the custodian and while I have got them they will stay intact.

Fair enough. Might I suggest that we might be able to work something with CUSCAL to get them microfilmed. Then you could keep them microfilm and it you wanted to deposit them somewhere you could deposit them in the State Library. That is what I am suggesting anyway. That is what the Historical Co-operative is suggesting with interstate stuff. Maybe the Historical Co-operative could then get a copy of the microfilm. But then you would still have a copy of the microfilm. Since the State bodies have all gone out of existence we have put in a submission to CUSCAL and to the new NCUA that they both of them complete a history in that they record interview with most of the people who were early in the credit union movement. Then they have those transcribed. The early Minutes they have them microfilmed and that the originals go to the State Libraries and on a national level they go to the Archives of Business and Labour. That there be a set in the State and a set in the Historical Co-operative to cover contingencies. That has been what we have been proposing. We have proposed to CUSCAL and the NCUA, for Queensland mainly, that they finance this over a period of time anyway in order to wind this part of it up. Although Crosbie, the President, is interested and the Vice-President is interested and Ewan Harvey professes to be interested we don’t know what will happen yet. They did come down and see us. One of the things we are trying to do is get the people interested in the historical preservation going in Western Australia. Now I have got this paper to do for AFIC, you see, and they allowed me the expenses. So that is what I am doing it on now. So I thought I would record these interviews while I can. That will fill in the gaps for them. If you can find any of your people with even a modicum of interest, if we could get somebody going round with a recorder there. Even somebody who would take a recorder and sit it on the table when they were talking together, preferably with a full-size cassette rather than those dinky little ones. If we can get copies of your cassettes, you are welcome to copies of mine. I am going to send you a copy of this by the way.

RB:      Right, OK.

All right we had better go on. The League. You were at the end of the League. Now why did the League finish?

RB:      The League finished mainly because we had to wind up the Savings Protection Fund.

Now did the legislation change, or what?

RB:      No, we had to merge a credit union that had got into difficulties with United. That was the Morley Credit Union which had to be merged with United, and the merging of that credit union effectively finished up that the Savings Protection Fund became defunct. All the money was applied to the wind-up, so that nobody lost any money, apart from the credit unions that had money with the Savings Protection Fund.

So it was the Morley one that had to be wound up.

RB:      The Morley one had to be wound up. In the winding up of Morley the Savings Protection Fund had to be fully paid out. In due course we then wound up the League to enable the new Association to be formed. You had affiliated and non-affiliated credit unions then and the non-affiliates were sitting on the fence thumbing their nose saying, ‘Ha ha, you have got the bag.’ You know meaning ‘You have to pick up all the lot, and we were the smart bunnies, we didn’t get involved with that.’ The Teachers’ and the like. The API’s.

Was there any overflow of the split that happened in New South Wales over insurance?

RB:      No.

Right. So there weren’t Stan Arneil supporters that were prepared to split?

RB:      No there wasn’t any animosity in that area.

Well of course it was terrible in New South Wales. The movement split right down the middle and ended up with five associations over that and various other things. Of course it spread to Victoria as well. But nonetheless it didn’t really split then at that time. So you were involved with the start of the new Association then?

RB:      Yes. Not as a Director on the Board.

Were you on the Board of the League?

RB:      No I finished up on the League because of the winding-up operation.

Right. Were you a Director?

RB:      I was a Director yes. I had another Director from my own credit union who served with me as well. Then once that was completely wound-up and finalised the new Association got off the ground then.

You’ve got the books of the League, have you?

RB:      The Minute Books.

You’ve got the books of the Savings Protection Fund?

RB:      I have, yes.

Right. Well don’t let them go unless they go to the State Library.

RB:      No. As I say a lot of people have tried to get them off me. There are lots of things in there that don’t make some people look very good.

Have you got a garage have you?

RB:      I’ve got them kept away in a strong room actually.

Even better. It is garages that I am a bit worried about at the moment. Graham Benson’s in Victoria is one of the worst.

RB:      I have got a strong room in the main Fire Station in Perth. That’s is about the safest place you can find.

The Historical Co-operative, you know where it is? It is in the bloody Railway Institute in Sydney and it has got wooden floors. No sprinklers or anything.

RB:      This is all double sprinklers and alarms. You name it.

We have got all this original stuff and what have you. Mind you we are microfilming it at a great rate of knots. But nonetheless it is a worry. Of course we have got no proper support. We haven’t got a single credit union as a member yet from Western Australia, not one. None of your credit unions over in Western Australia are members of the Historical Co-operative. What is more we have got no photographs. Have you got any photographs of the League or the Association?

RB:      Oh, I am not sure. I haven’t seen any that I can remember.

Well apart from the ones that have been published in various publications I haven’t found one from Western Australia.

RB:      I don’t remember seeing many at all actually.

Found a photo of Lew Louthean in something the other day. Well all right you were involved with the start of the Association, but you weren’t a Director straight away?

RB:      No. At a later point of time I was involved in the automatic telling machine company and then the central banking company and then of course the State Association as well.

The central banking company and automatic telling machines, what were you there?

RB:      I was a Director in both instance. That was Credit Union Automatic Telling Machines Company and the other one was Credit Union Treasury Management. One was CUATM and the other one was CUTM.

They worked straight in with AFCUL in the first instance didn’t they?

RB:      That’s right.

So you had the Redicard straight away.

RB:      Yes.

Did your credit union go in with Redicard or not?

RB:      My word. We purchased one of the first machines for the system over here.

Right. Did you have the GCS computer program in early?

RB:      No, we didn’t go in to that until about 1981, I think it was.

That’s pretty good.

RB:      We had the ICL system prior to that. We had an old Burroughs L9 and L5 system prior to that. Then the NCR Ledger Machine and a manual system to start off with.

The old electric or hand? The one with a little handle on the side?

RB:      No we had a manual system as such, just a card system. Then we went to the NCR Ledger Machine.

That was your own credit union?

RB:      That was my own credit union. Then the Burroughs L5 and the Burroughs L9. Then an ICL120 system. Then from the ICL we went to an Ultimate machine with the then GCS/FCS system.

That was because you were late. I understand. Because AWA picked it up in the first instance and then it got spread all over Australia.

RB:      Yes. The originating system was actually TAB in WA.

Yes I know that.

RB:      They did it by bureau through the TAB.

Did you credit union ever use that?

RB:      No.

I understand. It is rather interesting. I have heard various versions. I only recorded Brian Dean in that area. But I have heard various versions of exactly how the thing got started. I mean Brian Dean says that one of the fellow, Nigel Gallop or Andy Feetham, were asked to modify a program for the credit union.

RB:      Well we were with Brian O’Hara, who was Infodata. He eventually got bought out by GCS or FCS, or whatever.

Who was Brian O’Hara?

RB:      Brian O’Hara was the owner of Infodata. That was another system that ran on an ICL machine. He ran a system on an ICL machine.

What was that based on, a banking system or what?

RB:      Yes it was based on a banking system.

Well that must have been the R & I Bank and Brian Dean then.

RB:      Not at all. No. Brian O’Hara’s was a completely independent system. It was originally written, I think, for the United Credit Union.

You reckon that the GCS system was based on that?

RB:      No the GCS system wasn’t based on that. The GCS system was based on the TAB system. They were using it as a bureau.

So were a number of the others.

RB:      Yes. But the Brian O’Hara Infodata system, even though it was virtually only a one man show, had some superior technological applications to the GCS system, but unfortunately which the GCS system never brought into really brought into vogue or inherited.

What was good about them?

RB:      Well it just did automative stuff. There is still a certain amount of stuff with the GCS system that has to be done manually. Or the now today CUSCAL IT system. Like term deposit interest. The Infodata system used to handle all that automatically with regards to the accruals and the expense and everything else. Today, even currently for special reports you have to do manual calculations, you have to do special journals to update that information at the end of each month.

What is to stop you doing that yourself?

RB:      We don’t have access to the source code.

Have you had a go at CUSCAL about this?

RB:      Oh mate I have tried over many years. I have tried but you give up in the end because they just don’t want to listen.

That is interesting. I have got a couple of their boys to interview. I might mention that. So you got the Ultimate and used the FCS system. By that time it was FCS was it?

RB:      Yes, virtually.

It was bound to be, they had already taken over. Do you know anything about Les Robinson being involved with this and Geoff Cambridge?

RB:      Les Robinson? The guy from MCCS?

I don’t know about MCCS, but he was the Manager of the New South Wales League. He had a heart attack and he had to retire?

RB:      No. I don’t know him. There was a Les Robinson, or whatever, over here who did a big defalcation of one of the credit unions.

What happened to him was that he had an arrangement with Brian Dean with Geoff Cambridge of Credit Union Consultants. They were doing all the stabilisation of the credit unions that were in difficulties in New South Wales. They had an arrangement with Brian Dean. But when the New South Wales Association realised how good the program was they wanted it themselves, which they did, they bought it. This rather got up the nose of their erstwhile Manager.

RB:      There was a split then came and FCS virtually bought the rights to the GCS. Then GCS went to America. Then of course GCS after the grace period of time had elapsed, when they could introduce systems, came back here and started to try and get back into the market again. FCS took them to the cleaners again.

By that time there were already too well entrenched. Did you know anything about the Teledata and the CUE system?

RB:      I have heard about it.

Steele? They went to Canada and nearly sunk the Victorian League actually with all the money they were spending on research. Back to the start of the Association. So you became a Director in what year?

RB:      I can’t remember that now. It was towards the winding-up of Credit Union Treasury Management and CUATM going across to the new Project Renewal system.

As late as that?

RB:      Yes.

So it was a long while before you were back on the Association. We are talking about 1989 or 1990.

RB:      Yes, it could be as late as that. 1987, 1988 or thereabouts. In the late 1980s anyway. I haven’t got the Association records, I have got the League records. Brian Paterson would had the Association records.

Incidentally, what year did he start?

RB:      Oh, from the time he started we had nothing but problems.

My lips are sealed. I haven’t got him, by the way. I have got calls in to him.

RB:      When I say from the time he started we had nothing but problems, every time he raised issues all it did was cause headaches and cost us money. But still he did some good.

Why is he taking the package now, have you heard anything?

RB:      No, not at all.

So you have no idea when he started?

RB:      No, not really.

We are more interested in you anyway. What was your involvement in those years? You became involved in AICUM didn’t you? Did you start AICUM over there?

RB:      No. I wasn’t the starter of AICUM, no. When I say I wasn’t a starter, I was possibly one of the inaugural members in Western Australia.

How did that happen?

RB:      Oh just the fact it started. It originally started as a thing called CUES, Credit Union Executive Society.

Of Australia or of the United States?

RB:      Western Australia at that stage of time. Then the next thing along came AICUM and this thing just rolled into AICUM.

Was this the year that they had started then?

RB:      It would have been yes.

There were two strands of it actually in New South Wales anyway. There were two strands, one was the Australian Institute of Management, which was John McIntyre and company. The other one was CUES, New South Wales, which was Graham Humphreys. They sort of came together and CUES in New South Wales disappeared that same year.

RB:      It all transpired about the same time.

So that is about 1978?

RB:      Yes.

So we will put circa 1978, we don’t know.

RB:      The new Association was coming into being too.

Do you think it was as late as that the Association coming into being?

RB:      No. As far as the interrelationship between credit union Managers, affiliated and non-affiliated, which led up to the eventual outcome of AICUM.

On what lines were the affiliations and not? Of the new Association?

RB:      Basically right from day one of the new Association everybody was a member. The Teachers’ were going in and out like a yoyo.

Why was that?

RB:      Just because they reckoned they were the gurus and they knew better than anybody else.

Were they unwilling to accept the AFCUL ATM arrangements?

RB:      Yes. They were oracle. When they opened their mouth no dog was allowed to bark. That is from Shakespeare.

What about the ?????? let alone bark.

RB:      That is what I am saying.

How much involvement had they with the R & I Bank?

RB:      Quite a bit. Strangely enough Joe Boliavitch was a teacher of mine at Governor Stirling.

What about the bailing out of Teachers’ when it finally happened and the R &I Bank? Well it wasn’t really bailed out at all.

RB:      It was allowed to happen because I think it was politically manipulated to that event, to make big guys of the Government at the time. When in actual fact, it was the Government that was at fault. Now why the Government was at fault was that you had Inspectors by the name of Corbalini and Morrisey, who were then in the Registry under Brotherson, who were charged with the responsibility of inspecting credit unions which they didn’t do. Building societies as well, which again they didn’t do. They were recommending and having exemptions granted to certain bodies that other bodies were not privy to. Eventually, it led to the downfall of both the Swan Building Society and the Teachers’ Credit Society. But the Government knew, in 1985, Brian Burke knew that there was a problem with Teachers’ but didn’t want to recognise it. In July of 1986 at a meeting called of credit union Managers and that, there was quite a heated argument between Brian Burke and Alex Clark, in which Brian Burke closed the conversation by saying, ‘Get your act into gear or the Government will have to do it for you.’ In August of 1987 they handed the Teachers’ Credit Society over to the R & I Bank. Now if you know that there is a sore, you don’t normally let it fester that it gets to the stage that you can’t do anything with it and you have got to chop the arm or leg off.

Of course then with the Royal Commission along came the taxes and in the Royal Commission one of the things that came out there to the effect that the Mataxis lost his job. I think Corbalini and Morrisey have since disappeared into various little places around the area, but have never been brought to task for the responsibility and for what it cost the credit union movement in reputation and good standing for their failing in their required responsibility.

The Savings Protection Fund was wound up. What about the Reserve that followed. Was that a compulsory Reserve?

RB:      The one that was started. Yes they tried many times to get the Savings Protection Fund off the ground again, but the Teachers’ always seemed to be putting a spanner into the works. They seemed to have more pull in the Government area than anybody else.

So it didn’t get started?

RB:      No, it wasn’t until the Teachers’ were closed down that the Savings Protection Fund finally got started again.

So there was no compulsory fund?

RB:      None.

Wasn’t there any cover at all in between that time?

RB:      Not at all, nothing.

So were you involved in the attempt to get uniform credit union legislation?

RB:      Yes I was in the Advisory Committees that were formed for that. I was involved in looking at the drafts etc.

What years were those?

RB:      That was about two years before it was enacted.

End Tape 1A: 4287 Words: 1 hour 50 minutes.

30 APRIL 1994: WA4: RICHARD RAXWORTHY TALKING TO REG BEALE

You think it was 1987?

RB:      Yes, I am sort of guessing. The Credit Union Act, I think it is the Credit Union Act of 1989. I am not sure.

The one that Tom Duke brought in in 1980, was that not a Credit Union Act?

RB:      No. That was the Co-operative Act wasn’t it?

I don’t know. That is another problem you see. The reports all of a sudden end in the Parliamentary Papers.

RB:      I would have to check. I have got the information sitting on the shelf at work in regards as to when the Credit Union Act actually came into being. We were under the Co-operative, Friendly Societies Act initially.

Well the Acts I have got down out of your Western Australian Parliamentary Papers are Industrial Provident Societies of 1894 to 1975 and the Co-operative Provident Societies Bill of 1903 to 1975. Then at that stage I reckon there is a gap between 1973 and 1980 when I thought it was the Credit Union Act, but it could have been the Co-operative Act as you say.

RB:      It might have been the Credit Union Act of 1979 then, but I know there is a nine in it somewhere. But I will have to check that and see what I have got sitting on my shelf.

All right? But you thought it was 1985, or something like that?

RB:      I thought it was late in the 1980s, but I might be wrong. A lot of water has passed under the bridge.

This is another problem. I asked Tom Duke about it and he said he didn’t know anything about it after about 1980. He said his successor didn’t put up reports in Parliamentary Papers every year.

RB:      Brotherton?

I don’t know if he did or not, but I can’t find them if he did. I have been through the Parliamentary Papers here in two locations. One is at Sydney University, and they haven’t got a full set. The other is in the State Library and they haven’t got a full set. What is more I can’t find any separate reference to the Reports of the Registrar independently published, you understand, only in Parliamentary Papers of Western Australia. So I haven’t got a full set of them. So I don’t know what the story is.

RB:      I will have a look and see what I have got there.

Any chance of letting me know?

RB:      Yes I have got your number in the office. As a matter of fact I did ring you yesterday.

I know you did, I got it on my answering machine. But it is cheaper to do it at the weekend. I did have your number. There are a number of people who I wanted to ring, but I don’t have their home number. So what about the uniform Credit Act, it is not through yet?

RB:      No that is the one that is still going. That comes in in March next year.

What about the Project Renewal, were you involved in that?

RB:      Yes I was involved in the initial stages of that.

Were there any differences of opinion in Western Australia over that?

RB:      I think there was. Western Australia have always maintained that in fact that though they are the largest State with the smallest credit union number they have never had the equivalent representation or the fairness of representation. I think they still maintain that, although they have now got a Director on the Board. Doug Caldow.

I was speaking to him the other day. I have recorded him. He was looking at getting some finance for Western Australian historical projects, so he might put his nose in. I hope he will. I asked him to. So you were involved in it in what way, Project Renewal?

RB:      Oh only just as an active participant as a credit union, that is all. I wasn’t physically involved in any of the bits and pieces other than what we needed to go through for it finally to come into being.

All right. What about AFCUL, your involvement with that over the years?

RB:      The ??????? Years as they were termed here in Western Australia.

I see, the outsiders.

RB:      They were not looked upon very warmly. They always had brilliant ideas that meant it wasn’t going to come out of their pocket, it was going to come out of someone else’s pocket.

You went along with them on the ATMs and all that sort of thing.

RB:      Yes. We didn’t object from that point of view. I am just saying what the general attitude was in Western Australia. The Chairman of my Board and myself have always maintained that centralisation was a necessity. One from a cost factor and the other one from a combining of all the resources. That is really the thing that Western Australia totally, and even currently now, they are not happy with the fact that we have only got a Regional Manager who operates out of Victoria. Looks after Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia, Western Australia and the Northern Territory.

When did this happen?

RB:      Then you have got the one who looks after Queensland and New South Wales.

But Brian Paterson was your Manager?

RB:      That’s right, but not any more. The new bloke operates out of the eastern States.

No wonder I couldn’t get hold of him. Where does he operate out of?

RB:      I think it is out of Victoria. There are only two regions. There is the Queensland-New South Wales and the Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia, Western Australia and Northern Territory.

They have got another bloke in South Australia. I know Freedom has finished. Boy, things are moving again.

RB:      Yes.

Peter Ford, he handles Victoria and Tasmania.

RB:      Well who is the guy who is handling us?

Well I don’t know who is handling you. Someone was handling the Northern Territory and South Australia but there was a new bloke I thought for Western Australia.

RB:      No there is no-one in Western Australia. There is a Regional Manager and it is South Australia, Northern Territory and Western Australia and I thought Victoria and Tasmania.

That is Peter Ford.

RB:      You are not thinking of Graham Carty?

Yes.

RB:      No, Graham Carty is only just in charge here in Western Australia of the Western Australian Division.

How do you spell his name?

RB:      C-a-r-t-y.

Isn’t he the Manager for Western Australia?

RB:      He is the Branch Manager maybe, but he certainly is not the Regional Manager no. We don’t have a Regional Manager in Western Australia.

What difference is there between a Branch Manager and a Regional Manager? Same thing isn’t it?

RB:      Well, I don’t know. He is business services.

Oh I see, like CUFSAL.

RB:      But the Regional Manager himself has to look after South Australia, Western Australia, Northern Territory and I am sure Victoria and Tassie. Because Brian Mannix, I am pretty sure, is the guy who has now taken over Queensland and New South Wales.

I’ve got Keith Mannix.

RB:      Keith Mannix, sorry.

Regional General Manager New South Wales, ACT and Queensland.

RB:      That’s it, and the other guy looks after Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia, Western Australia and Northern Territory.

Well I don’t know who he is. Peter Ford I thought he was Victoria and Tasmania.

RB:      No, I think he looks after the lot.

Well Peter doesn’t look after them. He must be the local

RB:      They have done away with a whole heap of them.

Well I know John Feetham has gone. But I thought they had a new one.

RB:      Brian Paterson has gone. No they have split it into two regions.

That will cause some problems won’t it?

RB:      I don’t know. But that is what Western Australia is not happy about, because they are worried about what sort of representation we have got.

The ACT came into New South Wales a little while ago, and they are not happy either. Well Queensland, I don’t know which came first the chicken or the egg, but they have got more than a half non-affiliates out there now. Even Capricornia, which was a great supporter of AFCUL always has been, have gone out of the other body. Victoria has got a large lot that have gone out as well. That is interesting. So that is the whole of Australia. Well there you go. Of course Reg Elliott has gone. He has finished up. I don’t know where he is working. I have got another interview due with him to. Because he wouldn’t talk about Project Renewal when he was doing it. Of course Vern Harvey was the bloke that was planning it in the background of PA Management Consultants.

RB:      That’s right.

The first thing he did when he came into our place was join our organisation. He even paid his dues. That is more than Reg Elliott ever did. He gave us twenty dollars and said, ‘Here you are, here is my membership.’ He might even turn up at one of our meetings, you never know. Now so what was your involvement with AFCUL, that was my original question to you? Were you ever a delegate?

RB:      Only just as a credit union, that is all.

Never a Western Australian delegate in the old days?

RB:      No, not at all no.

What about stories Annual Meetings, if you like?

RB:      No, I didn’t get actively involved.

Did you get actively involved in AICUM.

RB:      Yes and basically just making my credit union survive.

You were involved from a financial angle with the Association in the early days. You haven’t been since?

RB:      Not really no.

So what else have you been involved in?

RB:      Basically just my own credit union, that is all. I suppose the only thing I can boast is that I am the original and longest-serving credit union Manager in Western Australia. There is no-one else around that was around when I started. The same in the Fire Brigade.

You don’t have to attend any fires any more, I hope?

RB:      No, there was no-one around in the Fire Brigade now that was there when I first started their either.

Did none of them come to pick their money up from your back verandah?

RB:      No. They used to drive ???? up from Fremantle to my place on Christmas Eve to pick it up, or put it in as the case may be.

Didn’t you have any branches?

RB:      No.

You still got no branches?

RB:      No, no branches.

So you are a mail order credit union, or electronic?

RB:      Basically we are electronic. Apart from that we have a system which facilitates whatever needs to be done, so it is not a problem.

Did you use any of the old systems, the mail order credit union? Did you used to have a cheque and things like that?

RB:      No we introduced a system could telephone withdrawals by which a member can ring up and have a cheque sent where they wish it sent. They can still do that. We are introducing an even more sophisticated system shortly where they can get their balances and all the rest of it over the phone.

But that is merely Voicedata. It is not very expensive is it?

RB:      No, it is pretty good actually.

You know Tom Kelly?

RB:      Yes.

Well he was moaning about how expensive these different things are. I said to him things had changed.

RB:      That’s right.

I said to him that I thought that it was, a voicedata box on a computer.

RB:      They use PCs up front now.

Were you involved in that Teachers’ ATM system off-line before the other one came in. Queensland Teachers’ actually, but I had heard there was one in Western Australia. It was off-line. It was on a punch tape. They used to have to go and take it out once a day or twice a day. It was open to abuse if the members had decided to abuse it.

RB:      No. Not at all.

Right, unless we can think of something else, I will let you be.

RB:      OK then, not a worry. If I can dig up any more info I will come back to you.

If you want me in the daytime the Historical Co-operative’s number is 02 219 1285. That is Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. You aren’t a member so I think we will send you the blurb and see if you can do anything about it. We are after getting somebody moving over there. We are not after doing it ourselves, although we do act as a central sort of thing. Tom Kelly he spends three days in that office getting nothing out of it himself, you know. I do it as a volunteer but I also do some historical work for other credit unions on a paid basis, as well as doing volunteer stuff. But we have now recorded over five hundred hours of tape. Most of it has done by me but Cam Laughton has done a bit in South Australia, himself. A few credit unions have done their own. Prospect in Sydney has done their own, that is Terry Fitzgerald and Lee Nash, they did their own. Mid-West out at Bathurst they have done their own. Northern Mineworkers, now Companion, and so on. Sometimes they send for me for a day to do recordings and I just send the tapes back. You of all people should know, your library, Battye Library, Western Australia, has got one of the finest collections of oral history tapes in Australia. There is a woman in charge of the oral history there and her name is Rhonda Jamieson. She is prepared to help anybody over there, but she will not do it herself. So you have got to have somebody, right, and she would get them joined up with the oral history association and trained and all that sort of thing. You have to have somebody who is prepared to front and do the work themselves. We were looking for somebody over there who could do it for Western Australia, you know. In the meantime you are stuck with me ringing you up.

RB:      That’s all right no worries.

End Tape 1B: 2397 Words: 1 hour.