2 NOVEMBER 1991: TAS1: RICHARD RAXWORTHY TALKING TO DON CLOSS

I will ask you Mr Closs, where were you born and when?

DC:      I was born in Prahran in Victoria on 2 May 1925. It was a very happy occasion for my mother because I was the first child to be born and unfortunately was the only one. So I am the only one of my clan.

Did you grow up around there?

DC:      No we then were resident in Olinda in the Dandenong Ranges and my father and mother ran a general store in the Dandenong Ranges. We ran the store until the years of 1930, 1931, when the big Depression saw the end of their aspirations for being a successful business. It was later on in life and I sort of grew up a little bit and understood the books and I noticed that they went broke in the Depression for want of ninety-nine pounds ten shillings. They went broke for that small amount of money which of course in these times means nothing, but it did in those days. They lost the shop, it had to be sold, but they did have a small house alongside it and I stayed in the house and we lived there. Unfortunately it also meant the end of the family life because my father then decided that he wanted to keep on with his army career. He had been a captain in the army during the First World War and had stayed with the civilian army. In 1932 he became head of the Wesley College Cadets in Melbourne and he felt that career meant more too him than staying with the family. So he then left the family and went down to a small suburb called Nunawading. He took a lady who was already married and had three children in Olinda with him, she left her family, and the two of them stayed down there.

I was then left with my mother and it was just my mother and myself until the year of 1948 when my mother passed on. I of course in the interim period had been educated at the Olinda State School, had left the school at the top of the class, and then had gone into Upwey High School, which is in the Dandenong Ranges. Unfortunately for my academic pursuit or aspirations I discovered there was such nice things in life as young girls. This was a bit to hard for me to sort of encompass and my studies went down. Nevertheless I did manage to go through. I don’t say it was a brilliant education but I managed to pass all exams. I was fortunate enough to be made head of the new part of the school, which was a new house called Bleasby House and I was named as the School Captain. My sporting career seemed to take off from then on.

What did you like and dislike about school?

DC:      Well I disliked the discipline. I wasn’t over-happy with discipline because at that particular stage I was going through a very difficult period, strange as it may seem to some particularly those who know me. In the early days when I was about six or seven I did a fair amount of singing and my wife had aspirations for me as a singer. I enjoyed singing and I was fortunate enough to win quite a few competitions in singing, even in radio in Melbourne. I liked singing more than anything really in those days, but then I liked sport as well. The difficulty was I suppose, looking back, the fact that I would go home every night and I would have to spend two hours doing singing practice. Then have tea and settle down to study for what had happened during the day and my homework. Of course being a prefect at the school at the same time, I was one of the youngest prefects ever at the school, and the responsibilities I had in other areas than scholastic meant the downturn in my ability to be able to discipline myself to study. What I should have done, we know now in hindsight, of course is forget those other and concentrate on the most important aspect which I think I didn’t do. I suppose it came about later on in life when I was with the Australian Broadcasting Commission that I enjoyed the attention of others and this was distracting to me. I enjoyed the notoriety with a result it was a case of not doing too well at studies. I didn’t enjoy that, but I did enjoy the notoriety, being Captain of the School, Captain of the House, Head Prefect, which I was for an unprecedented three years, I enjoyed that very much.

So what happened when you left school?

DC:      Well I left school to join the navy. This was devastating to my mother. I left school without knowing very much and joined the army. I joined the army at the ripe old age of nearly seventeen, I wasn’t quite seventeen, and went on parade and you wouldn’t read about it, but the captain who came to inspect the parade of recruits was my father. He nearly died when he saw his son standing in parade and I think it was one of the quickest exits that a trainee has ever made out of the army. So it was six months later after my doing a course in printing, I was a printer’s devil for six months, then my father said to me, ‘Well I think you had better join the navy if you want to. They will take you at seventeen.’ So the navy took me and I did join the navy and I was in action in Darwin with the big raids when I was seventeen and two months.

What do you remember of that?

DC:      Well my principal memory of those days was putting my nose into the dirt and hearing these screaming bombs coming down from the Japanese aircraft. Then finding that it got the better of me and I rolled over and watched the aircraft fighting up in the sky. We lost a lot of Wirra ways that day, particularly that big day. We were caught in our group, we were out at the Vesty’s getting vegetables for the boat when the raid sounded and the big raid came in and Darwin was virtually decimated. I can still remember seeing the oil tanks go up and we were right alongside them and we were belting down when we eventually got out of the dirt and got in the truck and decided hell for leather we would go back to the ship. We just got back to the ship and we had to go over the Neptuna, we had to cross over the decking of the Neptuna to get on board the boat, and we just got on board before they cleared. We were about two or three hundred yards from the Neptuna which was loaded down with mines when she copped it. She turned turtle right alongside the wharf at Darwin. Of course there were boats going down all over the place, it was absolute bedlam. That is one of the memories. Another memory I have was when we were caught in the dry dock and we were half way through painting the underside of the boat when the alarm went off. I reckon that is the quickest time we have ever painted the boat and got in the water. But they are the memories of the raids on Darwin which were a bit horrific. Never at any time was I worried about my own skin, because I felt that if it was going to be it was going to be. This is a sort of a fatalistic attitude that you have got to accept in those days, you wouldn’t have lasted if you didn’t otherwise.

Anywhere else in the navy particularly that you remember?

DC:      No I mainly seemed to travel between Thursday Island and Darwin. I did go across to Timor at one stage and was sent ashore at Timor and was surprised by the Japanese. We did have mortar shells around us. I did have a few little pieces of mortar embedded in me for a while and surprisingly enough some of those took twelve or fifteen years before they actually came out. But other than that, no, I didn’t see action anywhere else.

So what happened after the War?

DC:      Well I was number one, as far as I know, I was number one Post-War Rehabilitation Student that came out of the navy. I was sent back to Upwey High School, believe it or not, as a mature student. Well that was crazy, in my opinion, because all I wanted to do was date the French teacher she was nice. She got a bit uptight trying to teach me French, but she was very nice. I used to take the school for parade drill and I know they were complaining down in Upwey about this loud voice of this chap who was yelling at the students. But we used to have them pretty well drilled, they used to march very well. But it was a bit hilarious. They left me there for six months before they sent me down to Taylor’s College in Melbourne where there were more mature students. Once again the same thing happened, they put me in charge of all the students. It was my responsibility to make sure the students attended class. Now that is great, you have got soldiers, sailors, airmen and girls from the services all starting to learn studies again. Well the fellows all they wanted to do was get into the pubs, they didn’t want to go to class, and I ended up more time running around town trying to get them to go back to class, with a result my own studies suffered once again. So it wasn’t a very great success. So in about 1946, after the War, I went to Legacy and Legacy found me a job working for the National Mutual Life Assurance.

How long were you there?

DC:      Twelve months. At the end of twelve months the Church of England Boys’ Society wanted a headmaster for their corrective school, which was at Lysterfield and later moved to Narre Warren. I went to St Hubert’s and I last there twelve months. I had my twenty-first birthday when I was at St Hubert’s which was a very lonely affair because my mother was rather ill at the time. However, I stayed there for a further twelve months then after that I discovered my present wife and I then left St Hubert’s and worked for the Bankers’ Health Society of which my father-in-law was the Managing Director. I was there for two years until we decided that we would make the break and we got married and we shifted down to Sale in Gippsland where I went into business.

What sort of business?

DC:      Motorcycles and light engineering. I knew nothing about it. Didn’t know the first thing about it and oh dear it was funny. But you learn quickly. Ron Evans, who was with me, persuaded me to take up motorcycle racing, which we did, and I was motorcycle racing then for the next six years. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Took up commentating when I found it was a bit too hazardous an occupation then started out on that rather long career of commentating and describing. I joined the ABC as a Regional Sportscaster in 1952 and in 1956, at the end of the Melbourne Olympics, the ABC rang me up and offered me a job in Melbourne. So I went to Melbourne and I was a sports commentator for Radio Australia for twelve months. At the end of the twelve months they offered me a job in Hobart, Tasmania. I went down to Hobart for two years, they had said just two years. Ken Daykin said, ‘Just two years and that is it.’ At the end of two years Ken rang up and he said, ‘Right, back to Melbourne.’ I said, ‘No, I will never leave Tasmania.’ Much to his annoyance, I must admit. But we were determined, we loved life in Tasmania so much, and still do, that we decided to stay there for the good of the children and ourselves and we have been there ever since.

So you have been working with the ABC ever since.

DC:      Yes, up until very recently when I retired, I have been with the ABC for thirty-three years.

Where did you first hear about credit unions?

DC:      Oh well, I was in the ABC and in 1958 I was with the ABC Staff Association, I was their Secretary. Des Gibson, who was the President of the Staff Association, rang me up one day and he said, ‘Don, I have got a note from a chap in Sydney and Charles Moses has given his approval. He is going to come down to Hobart and tell us about credit unions.’ ‘Credit unions, what are they? Never heard of them.’ He said, ‘Well he knows all about them.’ He said, ‘He started one in Sydney and he feels that he would like to start one in Tasmania as an experiment to see if it will really work. Do you think we could run a special meeting and listen to him?’ I said, ‘Well I think the best thing to do is have a committee meeting first to see what it is all about.’ Stanley F Arneil arrived on the scene. Stan worked for the ABC then and Stan came into Hobart. I met him at the airport and he said to me, one of his first words, ‘What do you know about credit unions?’ ‘Nothing Stan.’ He said, ‘Well you soon will.’ That’s where it started. Stan gave me the message, he came out home, he had tea out home. Des Gibson said, ‘Well look it is too much for me. I’ve got too much to do.’ So I said, ‘All right Stan, well I think what we will do is we will send it to the membership,’ and we did. We sent it to the membership and I became very enthused about it. I suppose because of my background in the trade union movement meant that I was looking after other people and their membership worries and problems, with a result I felt this credit union was definitely something.

You haven’t said much about your background in the union, so perhaps you should do that before we go on to the credit union.

DC:      Well there is not much to really tell. I was instrumental in joining the trade union when I first did, when I first got there, because my boss at that time was President. His name was Bert Oliver and Bert was also my supervisor of sport. He said, ‘We need a new Secretary, what about it?’ I didn’t know that much about it, but I soon learnt. This didn’t involve very much except taking their cause up to management, sitting in with management, listening to appeals, listening to appointments, making suggestions on appointments. All that sort of thing, assisting the staff wherever possible. I had only been there about a year and a half and I was thrown in virtually at the deep end. I quite enjoyed it because I felt that I was able to assist other people. I suppose the credit union was just an addition to this, which we were able to do. Quite frankly I thoroughly enjoyed the credit union philosophy, it appealed to me tremendously. I have got to be honest, because there is another appeal to me that came from Stan Arneil. He said to me on his second or third trip, ‘What I want you to do is go out and sell the credit union to the people of Tasmania.’ Well that was a tremendous challenge. I thought, ‘Oh no.’ He said, ‘Look at the end of it will be a trip to America.’ That really got me hooked then. But that is another story.

But how many meetings did Stan Arneil talk to before you actually formed the first credit union? The ABC Staff Association Credit Union of Tasmania.

DC:      Well only one. He came down for that very first meeting. We called all the people of the ABC up to the fifth floor in Elizabeth Street and he fed them the message and we just carried it through very quickly. He came back a second time and said, ‘These are the steps you have got to do.’ Showed us what we had to do. We had to be registered and then we had to start thinking about membership and selling it to membership. By this time the management were very much in favour. They were mainly in favour because Charles Moses gave it his blessing. Stan of course was on his whirlwind tour right round the Commonwealth. So he came down the second time and told us what to do and the third time he came down was it. We then were registered, we accepted money and we made our first loan by prior arrangement with Stan. Our first loan was to one of our record librarians for sixty pounds and that was made the very day we started. We got one hundred and eighty pounds in as deposits on the first day, we loaned out sixty and we were underway. From then on it just took off.

I was on the original Board as the Assistant Secretary and six months later Bill Kenner, who had been Secretary, resigned because he wanted to go to Sydney so I became Secretary and Treasurer. I then realised what a tremendous thing the credit union was, but we couldn’t get anybody to take the responsibility. No-one wanted to do the book work. So I said I would do the book work and I can still remember, and my wife remembers very vividly, the business of taking the books home at night, after work, with a whole list of the deposits. Filling in the books for each individual member. Putting in the loans and adding on the interest. We did this for a period from 1958 and it was 1964 when the first Managing Director was appointed. So for six years I took all the books home, did all the books, all the Secretary work and Treasurer work for six years with my devoted wife, who was very very good and was able to help me. Without that sort of work between the two of us the credit union would have foundered. Of that I am certain.

Now can you remember the Directors and the Chairman?

DC:      Well the Chairman was Des Gibson. Des took up the Chairmanship. I can remember some. There was John Moore, there was Bill Kenner, there was myself, there was the News Editor, there was a lass from Programs. That is about it, I think. At the present moment, at this stage of time in 1991 there is only three left, the rest have passed on. Jack Smith was another. Jack Smith later became a long-serving President. Unfortunately they have now passed on which makes it all the more necessary to try and recount and recall the history of the credit union.

Did you have a Supervisory Committee from the start?

DC:      No.

What did Stan say about that?

DC:      Well Stan said, ‘Do the best you can.’ So we did the best we could. We named a Supervisory Committee who just looked at the books and I told them all the guff and they said, ‘Right, that’s it.’ They never once queried our work so we were lucky enough to get through that initial six year period. But of course there was a lot of activity besides that. I can remember back to the early days. We decided, I decided I suppose, right at the outset that we would have a ball and a dinner at the end of the year to celebrate the first year of the credit union. Magnificent, we had nearly two hundred people attend. The second year we had it it was up to over three hundred and fifty people and we realised we couldn’t run it again, because we had too many people. We then had a staff membership of approximately seven hundred and sixty, so we had the potential there, but it was too big. My wife Jeanette and I just couldn’t organise it and we just couldn’t get the Directors or the people to become interested enough to really try and do something for it.

So when did you start involving yourself with other credit unions?

DC:      The same time. In 1960 I was asked to come to Sydney to meet Mr Paddy Bailey. Paddy Bailey had arrived from America and I arrived at Stan’s place. Stan said, ‘We’ll have tea and then you and Paddy can go out and have a talk.’ Well there was two of us with Paddy, there was Godfrey Stephens from Queensland and myself. I was only talking to Godfrey today about the fact we can both remember walking around the streets of Manly at night discussing credit unions. We had many questions. Paddy answered them all. I then was brought from Hobart later on to go to Newport. I attended three seminars at Newport and I also had visits down home by Carlos Matos and I was subject to a fair amount of instruction. I really had a tremendous background in credit unions and I knew them backwards I felt at that stage.

So in 1961 I decided I would try my luck and try and see if I could form a credit union at Mountsea, or Cadbury’s Chocolate factory. Now this was a very closed atmosphere and I thought it would be ideal, which it was. It was very successful right from the outset. They were very keen, the management was keen and I was absolutely enthused with the management and the reception of same. It started and was successful so from then on the circle started. I then decided to go to the ACTU Committee in Hobart. I can still remember that night, freezing cold and I am surrounded by people whom I didn’t know, I didn’t know one of them. They all knew me because I was on radio and a commentator to boot working with the ABC. They all then took it under their wing and from that came the Hobart City Council, there also came the Metropolitan Employees and Transport, there also came in another small one, I am trying to remember but I can’t quite remember at the moment. But all told there was about five started in Hobart from that. Then I decided I would expand because at this time I was getting quite a reputation. I was being asked to talk at Lions, at Rotary, Apex, nearly anybody who had a meeting would ask me to come and tell them about credit unions. So for the next six years it was absolute bedlam because I would really have a very handful of credit unions. In those days I only had one day off during the week because I worked Saturdays. I would even go up on Sundays. I can ever remember going to Rossarden, forming one at Rossarden with a mining group. I had to join in on their Sunday early morning Matins, which was devastating because they kept running out of beer every time. What has that got to do with credit unions? Well they formed a very successful one. It was very hectic.

So when was the Tasmanian Credit Union League first formed? How did it happen?

DC:      Oh well. I am interested you should say that, Richard, because it is very hard to put how I feel about it. In 1966 AFCUL was formed. In 1964 I was talking to Stan and he said, ‘I think you need a League in this State,’ and I agreed. I then called the credit unions together to form a League and didn’t get anywhere. I was very disappointed at that so I called another meeting and I then, by a bit of lobbying beforehand, promoted two gentlemen, Tom Moore was one from the ABC and John Moore from the ABC was also another one, and I asked them to be the President and the Secretary of the League. I would help where I could. John Moore said he couldn’t be Secretary, so I ended up as being Secretary. I didn’t want to be President because I felt if I was President then others would feel that I was grabbing the limelight, which was not what I wanted, I wanted them to be there. So when AFCUL was formed it was right when the period when the League just did not exist. I couldn’t get the League going so that it could be one of the founders of AFCUL. We joined the next meeting, but we missed that inaugural meeting which is something that is very sad to me. I felt that it was a lot of work that went in that just wasn’t successful. I ran a couple of newsletters and I ran the League, I then became President because Tom said he couldn’t keep it up. He wanted to be President of the ABC. So I took over Presidency of the League and I was President of the League when I went overseas in 1967 and 1968. I was President in 1969. In 1970 I was really becoming embroiled in AFCUL and Stan said, ‘Right, I want to stand as President of AFCUL.’ He said this at Warburton. Now Warburton was a very bitter experience. I said, ‘Well I will back you Stan.’ He said, ‘I would like you to be Vice-President,’ and I said I would be quite happy to. Stan, of course, I suppose it is on record now, Stan was virtually stabbed in the back and that meant I went to. Immediately after AFCUL my wife had a nervous breakdown. The ABC gave me an ultimatum, that I would be made Supervisor of Sport for Tasmania but I would not get the job if I persisted in selling the credit union movement. So it was then that I had to make a big decision. I had to stick to my wife and my family and I had to desert the AFCUL and the national scene. So that was that. I left the scene, and for some reason and I still don’t know why they formed the Association of Tasmanian Credit Unions, which was entirely a new name and was taken over by the people. What did disappoint me was that when they formed the Credit Union House in Tasmania I didn’t even get an invite, despite all the work that had gone in beforehand.

Coming into AFCUL, how did you start to take a part in that?

DC:      Because I was Tasmanian President and I came in at the second meeting and Tasmania was then admitted to AFCUL, I became a delegate to AFCUL. So that is how I happened to be in AFCUL at that particular stage. I forget how many meetings I went to, it might have been about three four a year. I do know that there was a little bit of dissent felt that I was grabbing the limelight and getting all these wonderful trips interstate. It is all very well but they have no idea of the amount of work that goes in beforehand or at the time. Whatever it was, I just felt very strongly that there were too many being a little bit put out by perhaps myself gaining a little bit of the limelight, so I felt it was time for me to desist and give other people a chance.

Tape 1A: 4685 Words: 1 hour 40 minutes.

2 NOVEMBER 1991: TAS1: RICHARD RAXWORTHY TALKING TO DON CLOSS

You mentioned the Newport Schools and you mentioned going to a Warburton School, have you got any stories you can tell about the Schools you went to and which ones?

DC:      Oh well, I suppose one of the interesting ones was the second Newport School I went to, when I first met up with that larrikin of a person who was such a tremendous character, Dermot Ryan. Dermot came into my room and he said, ‘Right, get out.’ He had a whole case of beer on his shoulder, he said, ‘You can get out. We want to end up a good drinking session.’ I said, ‘Hang on you haven’t even started yet.’ He said, ‘I will as soon as you go.’ That was the very first time I met up with Dermot. I went overseas with Dermot and he was quite a character even then, but he knew what he was doing, he knew the game. I ended up with a lot of time and respect for him. In relation to funny things that have happened, I can’t remember many funny things happening because I was a pretty serious type of person and I enjoyed the Schools and I enjoyed the experience. Of course I was so enthused with the whole of the credit union principle. You mentioned Warburton, well Warburton was actually an AFCUL meeting, it wasn’t really a seminar. I spent the times I spent with Charles Compton and Carlos Matos and Paddy Bailey, whom I admired tremendously. I liked Paddy because he had a real sound head on his shoulders and you could really understand what he wanted and what he was about. But of course my greatest admiration was for old Stanley Foch O’Neil who gave me the inspiration in the beginning and we ended up by being very good personal friends for a long time. I could never fault Stan. I didn’t think he was devious, I didn’t think that at all. I felt that he was sincere and that he was a person to be admired and a person who really stood up for what he wanted. As such I suppose I was a Stan Arneil man and have always have been and I suppose I always will be. No matter what happens I still have a lot of admiration for him. So I don’t think really I can remember a lot of funny incidents.

I can remember a lot of fun and a lot of funny things that happened when I was trying to sell the credit union in Tasmania itself. For example I went to George Town and I was lucky to start the Sebo Aluminium Credit Union there. They used to pour me out of the RSL Club at about half-past eleven at night and then they would tell me to drive home. I would be driving home the distance of two hundred and fifty kilometres and I would forcefully be trying to keep myself awake and get home about half-past two in the morning and then have to be at work at nine o’clock. I did that repeatedly. The biggest hardship I suppose was going to Burnie, where I tried to get a credit union started at the APPM in Burnie and I met up with a gentleman by the name of Geoff Lincoln, who was the local shop steward for his trade union, that was the Papermakers Trade Union, and he wanted to know what was in it for him. I said, ‘There is nothing in it for you, but it is what you can do for the members.’ That didn’t go down to well. Burnie was four hundred kilometres from home and I went up there repeatedly and I would go up after work. By prior arrangement with Bert Oliver, my boss, I would finish work at about four o’clock, I would then drive the four hundred kilometres and I would get up to Burnie around about half-past eight at night then conduct the meeting. I know one night I was late, I had a puncture and I didn’t get there until quarter-past nine but the hall was still crowded waiting for me. I didn’t leave there until quarter-past twelve, then had to drive all the way home and still be at work at nine o’clock the next morning. So it was a tremendous strain, and the strain eventually told on my family and everything else. It was interesting. I wore out a Holden at the same time. My wife said I was very short of temper and delights in telling the story where one night I came home and I picked up my things at home and right in the bottom of the hill and I got out and said, ‘Well I’ll see you later,’ and I went out and got in the car and it wouldn’t start the battery had gone flat. I stood back and I slammed the door so hard I broke all the windows in the car, I was that mad. Needless to say there was no meeting that night, I didn’t go. But she says, ‘Oh, he’s got a temper.’ I didn’t think I had but that night it certainly came to the fore. I think mainly I was more tired than anything else.

It was difficult to try and get into Launceston. I tried desperately to get into Launceston by addressing Rotary, Apex and Lions. I gave an address at Devonport but they were difficult to get to. Again I was trying to utilise every firm that I could possibly think of, working through the ACTU and the Trade Labour Movement. So it was very, very busy. How I ever managed it and work I will never know.

Do you remember some of the credit unions you were involved in starting?

DC:      Time has played me tricks. I haven’t really gone back too long. We started the credit union at Titan, which is Blyth Heads, and Titan needs attention and will receive it very shortly. Sebo, which was at George Town, at the aluminium place. That was very successful and still is very successful. The rest of them were in and around the Hobart area. But I would think one of the highlights of those frantic years would be when I was made a member of the Founders’ Club and I am the only Tasmanian who is a member of that club.

Was it under the auspices of AFCUL or was it as an International Director from Tasmania that you went overseas?

DC:      I was named as an AFCUL Director. Well I was a Director anyway, but I was named as an Australian delegate. I went overseas with Jack Ross bless him, that was an experience, from Queensland, Dermot Ryan and a chap by the name of Kelly who came from Wagga, I am not quite sure on that but George was his name, Ken Miller and myself and we all went overseas in 1967. It was in that year that I also represented Australia and also did a tremendous amount of tripping mainly at the instigation of CUNA International who decided that we would undertake a tremendous number of courses, which we did. It was a long arduous trip because I came to Sydney, we went to a seminar for a week in Sydney. We went to Fiji where we were in Fiji for a week with Father Ganey and Joane Naisara, we stayed at Joane Naisara’s home. Well perhaps I could tell you the story about Dermot Ryan, it was rather funny. When we were in there Joane Naisara being very emotional, which these Fijians are they are very emotional, and Joane Naisara said, ‘You are now our delegates to represent us at the World Congress,’ and tears are rolling down his face and they all said, ‘Ho!’ Then we had to drink a thing of kava. That is terrible stuff that kava, it just numbs the base of your tongue and you can’t talk properly. So I went out the back and I said, ‘Cut out the kava fellows,’ I said, ‘they’ve got a forty-four gallon drum back here.’ So Dermot says, ‘Don’t worry, we will make a mess of that.’ So then he went out and as he went out he said, ‘I’m going to the toilet.’ So as he went out there were about five little boys all grabbed Dermot, because he was pretty popular with everyone, and they dragged him along and said, ‘We show you, we show you.’ So they took Dermot to a little bridge which was over a little gully and they said, ‘You stand in the middle of the bridge.’ Dermot said, ‘What, with everybody looking at me?’ They all laughed and he had to perform, little realising there must have been half the village watching him at the same time. But that didn’t worry Dermot. The kava flowed that night, my word it did. But we thoroughly enjoyed the experience because we were taken right down and put into one of the villages. Father Ganey was tremendous, I had a long talk with him and I gained a tremendous admiration for him. From there we went to Hawaii, we spent a long weekend also with courses in Hawaii. We then went to Los Angeles and in Los Angeles we had another week’s course. From there we flew to Dallas. It was interesting at Los Angeles on the last day where they said, ‘We’ll catch the helicopter at midday.’ We all had faces down on the floor. He said, ‘What’s wrong?’ What was his name, Wyatt I think it was. We said, ‘Well look our children will go crook if we don’t go to have a look at Disneyland.’ ‘Disneyland? What do you want to have a look at Disneyland for?’ Well the upshot was we were taken to Disneyland and we very quickly went through one of the sideshows at Disneyland. Jack Ross, or course, with his bad leg stumped along and did an admirable job and I had a tremendous lot of time for Jack because he really was under arduous circumstances which he handled magnificently. Then they took us to Dallas and we had another week in Dallas. Then we had the World Congress. That was followed by another fortnight in Madison, Wisconsin, with a week’s seminar at CUNA International and a week’s seminar with the insurance.

From there I went to Toronto and then up to Montreal where I went to Expo. From Montreal I had a pleasant experience of going to Dublin and from Dublin I went up to Derry where I met John Hume. I spent a week studying the credit union movement in Derry in Ireland. Fortunately it was just before the real dissent came about in Ireland and was most enjoyable. From there I went to London and studied the possibility of trying to establish credit unions in London. That was very difficult in those days, and I suspect it is still the same, it is very much of a welfare country and people just weren’t interested in starting to help their neighbour because they could get all they wanted from the actual Government, which was very hard to take. From there I went to Rome and I spent four days in Rome and from there I flew to Hong Kong and spent a week in Hong Kong with the credit union movement in Hong Kong under Father Collins. That was interesting because they kept shoving me around different areas because there was quite a fair bit of dissent there. There was a chap shot outside my hotel one night and they were very worried about it. I went down to the waterfront and tried to talk to them down there. I had an interpreter with me as well. But we had to cut that short because there was a riot started. So we ended up in the H Blocks and we talked to them up there. I could go on about those conditions. They were very interested and I finished up by going back to the waterfront about one o’clock in the morning and finishing talking about credit unions at about half-past two in the morning.

So that was quite an experience, that first trip. It was an extensive one. The ABC when I approached them and spoke to Charles Moses, he said, ‘We will pay you while you are away,’ which I thought was magnificent because I was going to be away nearly six months. But Charles Moses and whilst he was away Duckmanton, who was his understudy at the time, flatly refused to pay me for six months and said they would pay me for three. He was pretty hard about it, so I ended up by being very much out of pocket. From memory I think I was down something like $3,500 out of my own pocket to try and finance the rest of the trip. So that was a bit of an experience.

The following year, of course, was the big year. It was the year I took the two Tasmanian Devils to Dallas.

Whose idea was that?

DC:      That was Glenn Addington. He was the PR man who was at Dallas in Texas when we had the Congress in Dallas the year before. Glenn thought up the idea and said, ‘Look you have got tigers in Tasmania, what about sending us over a couple of tigers?’ I said, ‘Well they are extinct,’ I said, ‘we haven’t got any. We don’t know if there are any alive. Still don’t know.’ So he said, ‘Well, what have you got?’ I said, ‘Well we have got Tasmanian Devils.’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘well that’s just as good.’ So he said, ‘Let met know. See if you can get a couple of Devils to bring back next year.’ So I said, ‘Well there is no guarantee that I will return next year, the delegates have to be chosen.’ He said, ‘Oh no you will be right. If you are not a delegate we will bring you over at our cost.’ Well it took me twelve months to get permission through the government departments. I eventually got it with a month to go. They said, ‘Yes you can take two Tasmanian Devils and present them to the zoo at Dallas.’ But of course Glenn’s father-in-law was the head of the zoo at Dallas so that tied in there. I rang Glenn and I told him and he was as tickled pink and I was then subjected to the biggest hauhau that I have ever met in my life. I don’t think any credit union person from Australia has ever had such a greeting either before or since because it was fantastic. I arrived there on my birthday and I have dined out on the experience quite a number of times. I was even asked recently to give a talk to Rotary about it, Roteract and Probus to which I now belong. I left with two Devils in an empty tea chest and I had to get all the stickers and permission from all over the world, all over the place. Everywhere I went the Agricultural Department had to inspect them. They had to talk about it and I had to guarantee they wouldn’t be fed, because once you feed a Devil you don’t have to feed it for three days. We named them Tassie and Trukannini, they ate a great big wallaby just before they left, complete. A Tasmanian Devil will eat a complete wallaby, bones, fur, the lot. Anyway we took the two away and we got to Hawaii, which of course was the first call for America and I had to clear them through customs. The customs fellow I can still remember was down on his hands and knees looking at them and called everybody over to look at these Devils, you know, ‘Never seen Devalls.’ Well they certainly saw them then. They were absolutely amazed. In Los Angeles they put them in a great big iron cage, still in the crate, because they felt they might get out of the crate. Now if they had been going to do that they would have got out by then. Then I arrived in Dallas, which was my birthday, and I was met by the local school band and I was presented with a great big stetson. I was also given the freedom of the city. I was given a bunch of the yellow rose of Texas, a burst of six-guns shot in the air. What a reception. Then we took the Devils and sent them on to the zoo. In the meantime, just outside the airport was a magnificent Edsell car with on the side of it ‘Don Closs and the Tasmanian Devils’. Well Glenn said, ‘Follow me.’ So I tried to follow Glenn but fortunately I knew a bit about Dallas by that time, having been there the year before. So I lost him on a big intersection. I came to this intersection and as I did this little policeman came out and he is looking magnificent, he has got his helmet on and he has got his guns and his bullets around his hips. He has got epaulets and he has got whistles and he has got everything on and sunglasses. I came to the intersection not having a clue where to go because there were about four or five roads coming in, next minute he blew his whistle and halted the traffic all around the whole area and said, ‘Well come on Don, through you come Don. Come on Don.’ I felt about so big, but everybody cheered and clapped and honked their horns. It was quite a reception even in the city in Dallas. I went to the hotel and was greeted by a magnificent big bowl of flowers and fruit and the girl said, ‘Your Don Closs. Your birthday. Thank God you’ve come.’ What they had done they had announced on the wireless two days before that Don was arriving with the Devils as a present for the zoo and it was his birthday and no-one was going to be there to wish him a happy birthday. Well I must have had about two or three hundred cards. So then the phone rang and it was the zoo. They said, ‘For God’s sake get out here quickly because we want to release the Devils, they’ve been cleared, and we’ve got kids everywhere.’ So I got out there and apparently it had been on television, the arrival, incidentally. Yes I forgot, when they arrived at the airport they took me into the VIP lounge where I was interviewed and went live on television to thirty-two States. So apparently a lot of the schools already knew it was happening, or something, but whatever it was there were ten buses of kids at the zoo when I arrived. The kids were everywhere, they all wanted to see these Tasmanian Devils. So that was quite a schamoo, it really was. The Devils performed quite well and roared their heads off. There was too many people there for them to eat. They had a heated hutch for the Devils and I said, ‘I don’t think they really need a heated hutch bearing in mind of being in the hills of Bothwell in the middle of Tasmania in the winter.’ I don’t think they would really have wanted the heat but, however, they said, ‘It gets very cold out here.’

So that went on and I eventually got to bed that night at about three in the morning because I went down to the Press Club and they had a reception for me that night. The next day I was interviewed on radio, 4QRLP or something, then I went back on television again. Back to the zoo again to sign autographs which went on for hours. Then they had a reception that night, a Devil Night at the Press Club. That went on to about three o’clock. They paid for a telephone call to my wife. But just before I went into the Press Club Glenn Addington said, ‘Turn around and have a look.’ There was a magnificent big thirty-eight storey building with the lights of certain offices turned on which spelt out ‘Howdy Don Closs.’ There was another big exhibition there which I thought was magnificent welcoming me to Dallas and the Devil Night was really tremendous. They paid for a phone call to my wife. I have got all the photos, had to, to prove that it actually happened. I was still singing at that stage so we sang a few songs for them. That was another three o’clock in the morning job. Then the next morning they took me out to the plane past a building which had one of those travelling signs on it and it said, ‘Welcome Don Closs. Thank you for the donation to our zoo.’ I have got all that on photos. They then took me and gave me a night out in Chicago before we went on to Madison for the second year’s effort as delegate for Australia.

Was that under the auspices of AFCUL or under CUNA International? Was the World Council formed at that time?

DC:      Yes. Oh well no, it was CUNA International in those days. The World Congress was formed a couple of years later. But I came home and they wanted me to go back again for the third year, but I felt that I had hogged the limelight far too much. We then sent Don Smith and in 1970 we sent another young lad. I thought I had done my part by then.

Don Smith, wasn’t that New Zealand?

DC:      No this was a Don Smith from Hobart. He was the first President of Mountsea Credit Union.

Colin Smith.

DC:      Yes, Colin Smith. Colin incidentally was also with us when we went overseas in 1967, yes.

Were you with Dermot that time when he drank a yard of ale?

DC:      Oh yes, gosh yes. That hound. We got into Los Angeles and Dermot said, ‘Look we’ll see if we can’t drink this pub out of beer.’ So we asked for some beer and it was the first time in my life I had every tried to drink out of a yard of ale. I couldn’t drink it because I sloshed it a bit. But Dermot he drank a full yard of ale. He was a demon, he really could put it away. We drank the pub out of beer that first night and I am not a beer drinker, never have been. But we drank it out of beer that night and we drank it out of beer the second night and the third night he said, ‘Well we are going to fix you Aussies. You’re not going to drink us out of beer tonight.’ Well we did, but by gee it was a marathon effort that third night. Yes quite a character.

Who else was there? George McCready and Ken Miller that time?

DC:      That is the bloke, George McCready, George came from Wagga in those days. Actually my most pertinent memory of Madison was a combination between Ken Miller, myself and Dermot Ryan. Dermot was the principal one and we caught the Americans unaware, we moved that the CUNA International meet in Sydney, Australia. That was the first time they had really heard of us. That caught them unawares. I know it eventually did happen, but the World Congress was formed after that so I don’t know exactly what happened. I know at that particular stage we did.

But by then, one of the things I forgot to mention, was that, and I can’t remember his name for the moment it is on the tip of my tongue, I was elected as Secretary of District Twelve. Of course there were eleven districts that took in Canada and the United States and they established a District Twelve in those days which took out every country except Canada and the United States. I had fifty-four countries in District Twelve and I was Secretary of it. That year I spent as Secretary of District Twelve was a very illuminating and arduous year because I was constantly in touch with CUNA International. We were also sending letters around all over the world. I received an invitation to go to South America which unfortunately I couldn’t, I just didn’t have the time available. I would have loved to have but it was just one of those things. I gave it up when I left the second year. I said I just really could not keep up the pace because I was in trouble at that stage with my firm and with my own family. At that stage on own son, my elder son who was five had grown up to be eighteen and I had missed all those valuable young years of his life. Lyall, my second one had gone from three to fifteen and I had missed all his earlier years. My first daughter, Rhonda, I had missed all her younger years, she at this stage was I think thirteen. Lydia, of course who is my fourth child, she was just about to start her teens and I had missed all her early years. This had put a tremendous toll and strain on the family.

When you were over in the United States did you have to do any particular report for the Tasmanian League?

DC:      Well I had to report back to the Tasmanian League when I got home. I remember distinctly leaving the United States with a box of material and books, material that I had, and it weighed one hundred and twenty pounds. I am very pleased to say CUNA paid for it all to come back. It disappeared. When I came back to Tasmania it had disappeared. I never discovered it, I have never seen it, never seen it since. I just don’t know what happened. I have a suspicion that somebody pinched it, or took it, or disposed of it. But I didn’t really have any obligation to report back to Tasmania. The obligation I had was to report back to AFCUL, which of course as an Australian delegate I did at the next meeting after we returned.

Well that year in 1967 Ken Miller came back with Dermot with three reports on subjects which were later to establish a Savings Stabilisation Fund, Savings Protection Fund in other words. Now was there a Savings Protection Fund in Tasmania?

DC:      No there wasn’t at that time. But I can remember at night working with Ken and Dermot going over what we had learned. Now there was a chap in CUNA Mutual and his name was Leo, and I forget his second name, we worked with him for quite a considerable period learning about the stabilisation and what we had to do when we came back. Ken said he would do the work, which he did, and introduced it when he came back here. I remember that now.

What about in your State, what about in Tasmania?

DC:      Well Tasmania at that stage was quite content to roll along. They were very happy to take CUNA Mutual on board, which they did. CUNA Mutual when Charlie Compton came out, that was the first real person they saw from America in relation to CUNA Mutual. But they joined with New South Wales and we worked through New South Wales in those earlier days.

Now did you have a central banking system in Tasmania? Were you involved with it at all?

DC:      I was brought over to Sydney on quite a number of occasions, how many I have completely forgotten. I remember coming over here once and it was talked about that there be a central bank. Tom Kelly was the one who did a lot of the work in the initial stages in relation to this central bank.

That was the Co-operative Bank he was after.

DC:      That’s right.

They were fighting him over that.

DC:      I remember that. There were quite a lot of fights and I remember being at the New South Wales League over it. I remember going back and trying to espouse this Co-operative Bank when I then felt we would be better off to go with the commercial banks. We were better to have them with us than agin us, as was later proved. We then decided we would bank with the commercial banks which we have done ever since. It was one of those things. There was a lot in the pipeline in those earlier days. A tremendous amount of work undertaken by a lot of very dedicated people. I just physically couldn’t do everything. I wanted to, but I couldn’t. I was also very cognisant of the fact that I felt that there were people at home who were being irritated by me taking on board so much work. They wanted a piece of the action as well and I felt it only right that they should have it. The fact that they didn’t continue on, nor that they took it on, is a source of disappointment.

End Tape 1B: 4908 Words: 1 hour 50 minutes.

2 NOVEMBER 1991: TAS2: RICHARD RAXWORTHY TALKING TO DON CLOSS

Now we haven’t covered quite a number of credit unions that you were involved in the starting of. For instance, you mentioned that you had been involved with the starting of the Tasmanian Teachers’ Credit Union and the Tasmanian Police Credit Union.

DC:      Yes that is two that I started. The Tasmanian Police Credit Union was the first of those particular two and the Secretary of the Police Association came to me and said, ‘Would you tell me about credit unions?’ So I outlined them to him. I forget his name at the moment, he left after a few years and was transferred across to Adelaide. But that is by the by, we did start the one at the Police Credit Union. I spoke at the initial meetings, told them what to do and how to go about it and sold them the message. I then sold it a larger meeting of the complete police force, or those who wanted to turn up. Sat in then on the election of the first Board of Directors and the election of the President and did the right thing by going back twice to the next two meetings. I think after about six months I went back again and everything was in order and I think they did very well. They approached it from the right way. I was very pleased with the Police Credit Union, I thought they did a first-class job. Then this young lad left, or transferred over to Adelaide and I didn’t have anything further to do with the Police Credit Union. Well I had done my job and we got the credit union started, on its way, successful and so forth.

The Teachers’ were a different kettle of fish. Tim Jacobs came to me, he was then the Headmaster I think of Newtown Boys’ High School, a Newtown boys’ school anyway. He came to me and he said, ‘What about it?’ and I said, ‘Yes.’ I then went to a meeting of the Teachers’ Association and told them all about credit unions. One or two people said that they felt that they knew a little bit more about it than me, but however be it what it may Tim was quite a stalwart behind me. We then started to try and form the credit union with the teachers but it was a difficult one because Alfie Gough was the Director of the Education Department at the time and was very hard to persuade that we wanted to form a credit union. The biggest bugbear in the initial stage was that the Education Department wanted to take deduction from salaries but only once a month, and that was impossible, you couldn’t possibly do that. So I had quite a long fight with Alfie Gough over it and he said, ‘No, you will have to wait until we get a new computer,’ and goodness knows what. I can well remember there was meeting after meeting after meeting trying to get this thing underway. Eventually the teachers said they would start with only once every month and of course I said, ‘You can’t. I would much prefer it not started until such times as we can get it on a regular basis.’ Well it took about three months and at the end of the three months it came about. We got regular deductions and the Teachers’ Credit Union took off from then on and have been very successful.

We had also the other fight at those earlier stages was with the Public Service Savings and Loans Society. Now they had a young lad by the name of Paul Morley who was their man looking after the Society but I had to try and persuade the Directors to call themselves a credit union. They flatly refused and that was difficult. I became affronted a little bit by the fact that they were so adamant. I suppose it has got something to do with being a little town, Hobart, it is not very big really and certainly wasn’t as big then as it is now. But they would even pass me in the street and wouldn’t even acknowledge me or speak to me and I felt a bit of a pariah. Paul was with me virtually all the way and would liked to have done it but of course he was being told by the Board. Even until today there are one or two people who still harbour resentment about the fact that I wanted them to be a credit union because the Savings and Loans Society, which is what it is called today with Paul as the head and who has done a tremendous amount of work in the credit union movement, still is not called a credit union. They still would not be called a credit union so I just gave up after about twelve months of trying to get them into the society as a credit union. However, they were early days and we had quite few arguments.

Yes there have been disappointments and I suppose you have got to be prepared for that, you can’t be everybody’s friend I suppose.

The Commonwealth Public Service Credit Unions, a number of them have changed their name recently away from Union, the idea of a union you know, an industrial union. They don’t want that. The one in Brisbane, for instance, that was called a credit union is now called a credit society. They have changed their name away from credit union again.

DC:      So I believe. The CPS, the Commonwealth Public Service, they have continued on and it is very strong down home. They are doing a first class job to the best of my knowledge and belief. But it was the State Public Service that gave you the troubles. However, I could see that the writing was on the wall, they were not going to change their name. It wasn’t until such time as I was virtually forced to retire in 1970 that some time after that they must have joined, because I know Paul is such a very strong mover in the movement today. He certainly has always been credit union orientated even though it has never been called as such.

Did you have a Credit Union Advisory Board or Advisory Committee in Tasmania at all?

DC:      Not to my knowledge. I have really only just come back into the circle of credit unions. Paul Morley came to me about fifteen months ago and said, ‘Why didn’t you do something about the history because you know everybody. You are the only Tasmanian who is a member of the Founders’ Club. You started something like seventeen credit unions and it will be a good experience to meet all these old friends and people again.’ It was only then that I sort of came back into the society.

I did spend twenty-five years as a Director of my own ABC Credit Union and that was very enjoyable. I only left that credit union after I retired because I was no longer in the city and therefore the nearest one was Island State. But still I am very pleased at the fact that I was asked to give a talk at a seminar only last September, just over twelve months ago, where they asked me to talk on ‘What had I fathered?’ I didn’t know as much about credit unions then as I do now, the modern set-up.

There have been a few things that quite frankly have made me very disappointed and a little bit disenchanted. When the CUNA Mutual established a house in Hobart called Credit Union House, when it was officially opened I wasn’t even invited. I wasn’t notified, I wasn’t told about it. The Teachers’ Credit Union have had their twenty-fifth anniversary and I wasn’t even mentioned, I wasn’t even invited, I wasn’t told about it or anything. There was a big large credit union meeting held at Wrest Point in Hobart, again I wasn’t told about it. So I have virtually been dropped from the scene completely much to my disappointment. But I suppose memories are short and people think more the present than they do of the past. I am finding this is a little bit of an indication even with the historical side of it now. But certainly I have got the task ahead of me now to remind people that they have a history. Whether they take it on board or not, whether they dislike Don Closs or not, I don’t know.

Certainly I am out of the public eye and that has been a source, I think, of irritation to some. I spent thirty-three years in the Australian Broadcasting Commission as a sporting commentator. Now I have been on television right from the moment it started in 1970, when television started in Tasmania for the ABC. I was in television right up to the time when I retired. Of course nearly thirty-odd years. Because I was in the public eye and because I was in people’s lounge rooms constantly being two to three times a week on television it is understandable that people might feel a little bit resentful of me being sort of in the public eye. I felt it was good for the credit union movement and certainly as such being a public speaker and being invited to speak publicly which I was constantly by people. I travelled all over the State and gosh now when I think now of the amount of time, the amount of money, the amount of expense, because it was all done with my own money, it is amazing.

Well I am afraid if people feel resentful I can’t do anything about it because my main love in life has been first of all my wife and family. But I did desert them for the credit unions a tremendous number of times. The credit unions are the things that I really feel my love is and I have certainly sunk all my soul into it.

Did you have any Chapters down in Tasmania at all?

DC:      No, we didn’t. They may have been established after I sort of left the movement. I was forced to by the ABC because it was either have a job or no job. They may have then. But certainly I have don’t know of any Chapters in Tasmania. I tried to establish them when I first started, when we first had the Credit Union League, but the fellows said, ‘Oh no, not another night out.’ It was all right for them, they were only going about twice a month whereas I was out anything up to four or five nights a week. But still it didn’t happen, not to my knowledge.

So what method did they use for educating their Managers and the Directors?

DC:      Well I really can’t talk out of school on that, Richard. I don’t really know what they have done to educate them. I don’t honestly believe that the people who are now, with the exception of Paul and perhaps CPS Credit Union, I don’t believe that they really adhere to the principles of what I understand true credit unionism to be. Garth Willmot is in Island State and a great friend of mine. Garth is one of the old school but I think the job has got too big for him to be able to apply credit union early philosophy as it is. I think he is now become one of the big operators and is very happy with being a big operator. Certainly those I have met in the movement so far, they all looked at me in amazement when I spoke at the seminar at Port Arthur and also at Hadspen where I said we had to get back to basics. There are things about it that I am a little upset about. I am a little upset at the fact that they turn around and say when you retire you can’t borrow any more money because you have got have a thousand dollars or it is not economically viable. Now that is crazy that is saying once you retire you have got no more debts. I don’t believe that. I don’t really think that they are applying themselves to the old principle of trying to assist people and help the ordinary borrower, the ordinary member. They have all got problems, you can’t tell me that debts are not just as bad today as they ever were.

So were you involved in setting up a Reserve Board in Tasmania or there is none?

DC:      Well there is one now. When we first started to try and bring up reserves I had been to Sydney to the New South Wales League and it was then that the Government had come into it. There were quite a few controls and they had had to establish a Reserve Board. I could really see where this was heading and I went back to Tasmania and said, You have got to back off against bad debts. You have got to look at reserves. You have got to establish reserves.’ When I told them that I wanted them to all aim at a 3 per cent reserve they all held their hands up in horror and said no way could they make reserves that much. Well I think it is a bit more than that now, but there is still no Credit Union Act as such in Tasmania. It has been mooted and I believe it is now in the framing stages and is shortly to be introduced to the State. We still haven’t got it and I think they are just going to get a shock because I know that some of them have got very little reserves. Some of the big ones have, but they have got to because we now only have nine credit unions in Tasmania, two of them are under threat of closure and this is going to make it less. This is because the bigger credit unions have got bigger and expanded and are getting bigger. They are the ones that really have got to have reserves. I don’t believe the reserves are anywhere near what they should be. They have just got to learn but I don’t know how they are going to do it.

When the credit union I established at the University went kaput, folded up and the Manager shot through with a fair amount of money, I don’t remember how much but I know it was well over $150,000 and he committed suicide on Mount Wellington, if it hadn’t have been for the State Public Service it would have gone down the tube. It would have hastened things along a lot but the State Public Service took them over, to their credit, and saved the movement in that particular area. It is coming, but it is a long time coming.

Is there any other area of Tasmanian credit unions that we haven’t covered that you can think of, that we should cover?

DC:      Well at that stage and having not really thought about it that much I don’t think so, Richard. I think we have just about covered it all. There may be things that will come back to me, I am positive of that. I have got so much memorabilia at home and have realised I have got so much that is of value to the Historical Society which I will send up here. Yes I seem to have taken a tremendous amount on board in those early days. If I hadn’t of who knows what would have happened. Maybe somebody would have taken it on but certainly there was nobody willing to or who offered to take it over in those early days.

I think we have virtually covered the background and the history of the what actually happened in those days. This of course is my interpretation. There are other people who may not be prepared to say the same as I have. But I still have a lot of friends in the movement and for that I am eternally grateful.

You are going to be starting to interview some people from now on, are you?

DC:      I have already started. I have covered the Sebo or Comalco Credit Union because they are under threat. The next one will be the Titan up at the titanium factory up at Burnie, or Blyth Heads, they will be within the next month. Then I will be able to concentrate on the ones closer to Hobart. Both those are well away from Hobart, two or three hundred kilometres, so I have got to do a fair bit of travel to get up their to see them.

But yes, we are underway and I think the hardest job is going to be catching up with the credit unions that have been taken over by the bigger credit unions. This has been because they haven’t got the facilities, they haven’t been able to afford the facilities of computers and all that sort of thing, so with a result a lot of them have been taken over. So it is going to hard yakka to try and find people who are still associated with them, but we will get there. It may take twelve months or more and I wouldn’t be surprised. I have started out on the wrong track by starting to write their history for them and of course I didn’t realise how much I had let myself in for. We will straighten that out when I get back. There is a lot of history there that I think has to happen.

Now the Comalco one is very interesting in as much as they have had a colossal fight down there. Apparently it was a gentleman who was in the firm and was deemed to be unsatisfactory by the firm and they looked as though they were going to push him out the side door. He realising this may happen then undertook to get a few cronies together, pack the Board, pack the meeting and had himself installed on the Board. Then when he realised that the time was getting short and he would be ousted from the actual firm he then decided that he wanted to be President or Secretary of the Board, no wanted to be General Manager of the credit union. The present Manager was then to be demoted. He then decided that this was going to happen by he was thwarted by the membership. They called a meeting and the membership created a tremendous fuss and it ended up an utter chaos. So they had to call another meeting at which he and is confederates were all ousted from the Board. A new Board was constituted and the General Manager was replaced there and confirmed there. That really nearly split the town. When the firm disposed of this gentleman’s services he left the district. I have yet to interview him. I have arranged for an interview with him and I understand that I will be doing that in another month or so’s time. It will be interesting to hear his side of the story. But it very nearly split the credit union. They were very strong to overcome it, but it was the membership that came to the fore and realised what was happening and said enough was enough. So that has been a very interesting exercise to find out how this credit union has overcome the very big problem of being taken over by somebody who obviously wanted to make it for his own purposes and his own continuity of being employed.

In your retirement, what have you been doing? I am sure you haven’t been spending your time idly.

DC:      No Richard, I certainly haven’t. I retired and immediately was asked to be a Director of the first Australian Masters Games. This was a very big job and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I spent two and half years as a Director of the Games and was in the Board and had about five or six different positions. That was most enjoyable.

I no sooner finished that than I was asked to be the National Administrator for Professional Cycling in Australia. This was another couple of years of very hard and arduous work and enjoyable in many cases but the travelling got to me. I was travelling continually right throughout the Commonwealth and that included Perth and that got pretty hard.

I have been a Director of the Tasmanian Hall of Fame now for six years and this has been most enjoyable and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. My other half, my wife, has been the Australian President for the Society of Growing Australian Plants. This has also meant a fair amount of travel throughout the whole of Australia. So we have been keeping very, very busy indeed, there is no doubt about it.

So you put an awful lot of time into credit unions over the years, probably intensively for a number of years. Has this had any sort of toll on your family life or your health? Any regrets about it?

DC:      No regrets really, but there is a little incident that happened that you may be interested to know and it happened in Madison in Wisconsin in 1967 I think it was, 1968. I was a bit too intense I think when I first started. I really loved credit unions, it appealed to me tremendously but the way I went into it, looking back now, I think I was far too intense. I really did far too much and more than anybody else. I think I would have been happy if other people had helped me, but it seemed to be a one-man band and that was a pity. I worked very, very hard and eventually got to Madison and I sat down at Madison and had a very quiet moment. Looking out the window I can actually see still in my mind’s eye what was going on outside and I said to myself, ‘Don, has it been worth it?’ Do you know I said to myself then, ‘No, it hasn’t,’ because the toll that it took on me personally. The toll that it took on my job, it held me back and I found that afterwards, the work that I did put in held me back for promotion in the Australian Broadcasting Commission. It also meant that I was overlooked to go to Commonwealth Games and Olympic Games. It also meant that it was a long time before I was chosen as Supervisor and I was overlooked by two other people in the same time. Then I realised why, and the reason was because I was spending so much time with the credit unions. Then I realised the toll on my own personal family. I missed all the earlier years of my family. I am very devoted to my family and very devoted to my wife, she is a magnificent person she really is. She certainly has had to put up with a lot and it culminated in a disastrous nervous breakdown. At that time as was also the Master of my own Lodge and I was very busy in local affairs with Lodge affairs. Going to Ladies’ Nights and being out at least twice a week, three times a week for Lodge alone. At the same time, incidentally, I had built my own house. I sub-contracted it and oversaw the whole building of my own house at the same time. I don’t know how I did it all. Looking back I know that I felt very lonely in Madison. I do get lonely if I am away from my wife and my family for more than about two or three weeks or a month. I get very lonely and I did that day in Madison and I thought it wasn’t worthwhile.

When I see the direction the credit unions are heading today, I just wonder if it was worthwhile. They do seem to be getting away from our basic concepts and this disturbs me. I am happy to be back, I am happy to be doing my little bit to help and preserve the history. I am enjoying the friendships I am making. Life has been far too busy, it really has and I think in this latter life when one gets a little bit older you start to realise it. Hopefully I might see a bit of sense and slow down. My wife has been wanting me to do so for a long period. It has been great to meet people who I haven’t seen for so many years. I regret the years I have been away, in a way, but I had a very demanding job. I was a Supervisor of the Australian Broadcasting Commission’s Sporting Department and I supervised the introduction of television to Tasmania. I had the responsibility for everything in that department so I really couldn’t have managed the two.

But overall, it has been quite a satisfactory life. I am happy to be back, but I did have some big regrets. I tried to do too much.

Well thank you very much Mr Don Closs.

End Tape 2A: 4243 Words: 1 hour 30 minutes.